The Drive Home - Page 2

The Drive Home

This is a discussion on The Drive Home within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've run this scenario thru my head many times,what I would do and the bottom line is anything in my power to hopefully let the ...

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Thread: The Drive Home

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I've run this scenario thru my head many times,what I would do and the bottom line is anything in my power to hopefully let the Officer go home to his family at the end of the day.
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  2. #17
    Member Array chivvalry's Avatar
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    "Freeze or I will shoot you!!"

    If BG doesnt immediately freeze then take careful aim to ensure I don't hit the officer and then double tap the BG. Repeat as necessary until threat is ended.

    If BG freezes then order him off the officer and down on the ground while covering him from a reasonable distance (say 10 ft). Any false moves or lunges and he gets double tapped. Again, repeat as necessary.
    "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
    You are not paranoid if They are actually out to get you, however, They probably are not and you probably are.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Wheres the be a good witness crowd?
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  4. #19
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    If there's time, dial 911, say "officer down" and give location. Sprint to assist officer.

    Without a second thought, help the officer. Check surroundings to make sure no further suspects or not walking into a ambush. No need for a firearm at this point get bad guy off of good guy using whatever means possible to stop the attack.
    Same here, as long as the LEO is in the game and they aren't fighting for the officer's weapon. Depending on how things are set up, I'd either grab the BG's head from behind and pull from the jaw backward and control from there or else use my sidearm to whack him in the head. No need for shooting as described so far by the OP. Shooting is always the last resort and we're not there yet.

    What follows depends on whether the officer can now assist in controlling the perp.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  5. #20
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    I've posted this link before, but here it is again, it's a similar situation as described in the OP

    http://www.theshootist.net/2009/01/o...-perry_12.html
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    It is clear that many recognize the exigency of the situation and the need for immediate action.
    To expand on the point are the following things to realize. With the officer in a weakened state, the susp may at any time gain control of the officer's weapon and shoot the officer and anyone else nearby. The officer's head is on the concrete sidewalk. The susp smashing the officer's head on the concrete could easily cause a skull fracture and possibly death. Even just the punching of the officers head/face, with his head on the concrete could easily cause extreme GBI

    The point being that due to the nature of the circumstances the force ladder is completely open and the exigency virtually eliminates any mandatory verbalization befor acting.

    Obviously, individual actions will be based on the personal/physical situation of each person deciding to take action.

  7. #22
    Member Array chivvalry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    Wheres the be a good witness crowd?
    Screw that. I'm not sitting there watching a LEO get killed. No way, nuh-uh, not happening. If I wasn't armed I still would be sitting there watching. A well placed boot from behind right between the legs might get his attention to begin with.

    Agree with the other post about no need in this circumstance for a verbal warning... I just would if I was armed and wouldn't if I wasn't armed.
    "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
    You are not paranoid if They are actually out to get you, however, They probably are not and you probably are.

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    Wheres the be a good witness crowd?
    Those of us who are normally in the "be a good witness" crowd tend to feel that way when we're not 100% sure of the situation and we don't want to go to prison for making a wrong guess.

    In this scenario, a uniformed police officer is being assaulted right next to his patrol car with lights flashing.

    It doesn't get much more clear than this.

    Time to draw and shoot the perp, *maybe* with a warning first, depending on the specifics.
    "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."

    -miklcolt45

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXD View Post
    Those of us who are normally in the "be a good witness" crowd tend to feel that way when we're not 100% sure of the situation and we don't want to go to prison for making a wrong guess.

    In this scenario, a uniformed police officer is being assaulted right next to his patrol car with lights flashing.

    It doesn't get much more clear than this.

    Time to draw and shoot the perp, *maybe* with a warning first, depending on the specifics.
    While I generally would say the officer gets the benefit of the doubt. But even this situation is no 100% certain.

    1.) what about the increasing incidents of people suping up crown vics...going to costume sotres and impersonating officers. it is very far fetched but imagine a scenario where someone is pulled over by one of these fake cops..finds out he's a fake,..and a struggle begins...

    2.) dirty cop.

    Why wouldn't the "be a good witness, you don't know the totality of the situation" crowd assume this still?
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  10. #25
    Member Array chivvalry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    While I generally would say the officer gets the benefit of the doubt. But even this situation is no 100% certain.

    1.) what about the increasing incidents of people suping up crown vics...going to costume sotres and impersonating officers. it is very far fetched but imagine a scenario where someone is pulled over by one of these fake cops..finds out he's a fake,..and a struggle begins...

    2.) dirty cop.

    Why wouldn't the "be a good witness, you don't know the totality of the situation" crowd assume this still?
    Hence the reason I would still give verbal warning before employing deadly force. If the assumed BG is NOT a BG and has been assaulted by a fake police officer and is defending themselves then they SHOULD stand down immediately. Failing immediate response to a deadly threat warning would be enough for me.
    "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
    You are not paranoid if They are actually out to get you, however, They probably are not and you probably are.

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    While I generally would say the officer gets the benefit of the doubt. But even this situation is no 100% certain.

    1.) what about the increasing incidents of people suping up crown vics...going to costume sotres and impersonating officers. it is very far fetched but imagine a scenario where someone is pulled over by one of these fake cops..finds out he's a fake,..and a struggle begins...

    2.) dirty cop.

    Why wouldn't the "be a good witness, you don't know the totality of the situation" crowd assume this still?
    I agree that nothing is 100% certain and not everything is as it appears to be, but most states follow some form of "reasonable man" standard. I don't really see a lot of danger in standing in front of a jury when any sane person would have believed that the guy was a cop being beaten to death. I think this would especially be true if you had attempted a non-lethal solution first (telling the guy on top to "freeze," etc...), giving him the chance to try and explain himself.
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  12. #27
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXD View Post
    I agree that nothing is 100% certain and not everything is as it appears to be, but most states follow some form of "reasonable man" standard. I don't really see a lot of danger in standing in front of a jury when any sane person would have believed that the guy was a cop being beaten to death. I think this would especially be true if you had attempted a non-lethal solution first (telling the guy on top to "freeze," etc...), giving him the chance to try and explain himself.
    I agree, I believe anyone who acts like we all suggest in this thread...is acting very very reasonable. There is an unreasonable minute possibility we are wrong but hey, you can say that about any scenario.

    Hence the reason I would still give verbal warning before employing deadly force. If the assumed BG is NOT a BG and has been assaulted by a fake police officer and is defending themselves then they SHOULD stand down immediately. Failing immediate response to a deadly threat warning would be enough for me.
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  13. #28
    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXD View Post
    Those of us who are normally in the "be a good witness" crowd tend to feel that way when we're not 100% sure of the situation and we don't want to go to prison for making a wrong guess.

    In this scenario, a uniformed police officer is being assaulted right next to his patrol car with lights flashing.

    It doesn't get much more clear than this.

    Time to draw and shoot the perp, *maybe* with a warning first, depending on the specifics.
    This.

    It sounds to me like the situation is perfectly straightforward. I'll roll up full speed in my Jeep blaring my air horn, drop it into neutral and stop, pull the e-brake. If the cretin is doing anything but running away at this point I'm drawing on him and giving loud voice commands. If he doesn't stop he's getting dropped, no questions asked.

    Fists can kill, especially when the person receiving the beating is on the ground/concrete. Then there's the fact that he might gain control of the officers firearm and kill the officer with it, and possibly take it to use in further violence.
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  14. #29
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    I agree with giving a verbal warning. On are there any witnesses, there is always dash cam and if off the screen, normally audio as well. I would not be able to just try and be a good witness and let it continue, I would have to stop and help and try to put a stop to it. When seconds count, police are only minutes away goes for a downed officer as well.

  15. #30
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    the only "auditory" warning the BG gets is the sound of the safety going off... Before I exited my vehicle, I dialed 911, as soon as they answeed, I'm shouting officer down, giving location... leaving the car, phone "off hook" and I am shooting the BG until he's down. It's gonna be over in 10 seconds or less, I am waiting for police and amberlamps.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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