The Drive Home

This is a discussion on The Drive Home within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; No warning! No 911 call first. TIME is "not" in the officer's favor here. (Even a "FEW" seconds could make the difference.) The BG guy ...

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Thread: The Drive Home

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    No warning!
    No 911 call first.

    TIME is "not" in the officer's favor here. (Even a "FEW" seconds could make the difference.)

    The BG guy is dead as soon as I get in place for a "safe" shot. (or TWO)

    If the officer is conscious, I ask him to remain still while I make sure help is on the way; then I render 1st aid until said help arrives.

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Bottom line...I will assist the officer..PERIOD...Age and physical condition will prevent me from going one on one hand combat ...I will keep reasonable distance (10 feet) to prohibit the BG from lunging at me...one and only one voice command to STOP...if no response to my command, my weapon will definitely come into play. The officer's life comes first...consequences will be dealt with after the fact. JMO
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  4. #33
    Distinguished Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    It's gonna be over in 10 seconds or less, I am waiting for police and amberlamps.
    "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."

    -miklcolt45

  5. #34
    Senior Member Array CowboyColby's Avatar
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    Flying knee to the bg's face followed by pepper spray. Restrain Until officer can get up or the guy is unconcious. If I see he has a firearm clear line of fire and pull the trigger. Once im older it will probably be the bg getting my shovel across his face.

  6. #35
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    Senior Member Array 3D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ppkheat View Post
    I've posted this link before, but here it is again, it's a similar situation as described in the OP

    http://www.theshootist.net/2009/01/o...-perry_12.html
    Incredible event!! ppkheat thanks for the post. I'll never again think, hope, believe that one or two shots will stop the threat. . . nor will i underestimate the consequences of one man getting involved!
    "It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end"____Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Flying knee to the bg's face followed by pepper spray. Restrain Until officer can get up or the guy is unconcious. If I see he has a firearm clear line of fire and pull the trigger. Once im older it will probably be the bg getting my shovel across his face.
    If I am brave enough to voluntarily go h2h with a guy who just took down a trained officer when I have a gun... then I am not going for a strike. i'm going for a rear naked strangle, pulling him backwards and hooking his legs until the officer can gain control of the situation.
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  8. #37
    Distinguished Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    No warning!
    No 911 call first
    Even if you were another officer rolling up on this situation, you'd call in "officer down." You just do that. If the LEO on the ground doesn't have the 20 seconds it takes you to do this, then you're too late on the scene. Get that call in first, then take it from there. You will have guaranteed that trained and armed responders are on the way and an ambulance too, probably.

    I like CowboyColby's flying knee. In class, we've practiced some techniques for breaking up and ending fights, and what a lot of people seem to want to do instinctively is grab a person from behind by the arms or shoulders. That doesn't usually turn out well for various reasons. Instead, I've found the head-grab from behind to be really effective. Try it at home. Have someone grab you from behind with one arm around your head and the other hand cupping your jaw. You'll see - you're pretty much helpless and you'll be going wherever the person wants you to go.

    This is also a good situation for CS because you can reach around and jet the perp right in the eyes. No matter how all this goes down, if you can end it without bullets you'll have a much easier time out on the other side.

    PS: Excellent post, ppkheat! Very appropriate to this discussion.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  9. #38
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    If I am brave enough to voluntarily go h2h with a guy who just took down a trained officer when I have a gun... then I am not going for a strike. i'm going for a rear naked strangle, pulling him backwards and hooking his legs until the officer can gain control of the situation.
    Now that you've got this Tiger by the tail, what do you do if the officer is incapacitated and unable to help you?

    The officer is out of the fight. What are you going to do now? How long can you hang on? Me, I say cut to the chase, STOP the SOB right NOW! The only way to do that is with a bullet to the CNS, hence the contact head shot.

    It's been said that old men will just kill you. As I grow older, and feel years older than my chronological age due to living life to the fullest, I find that I'm doing things in a manner more befitting of an octogenarian. I'm not fifty yet, but mean old man would be an apt description.

    If I'm like this now, how will I be when I am an octogenarian?

    Biker

  10. #39
    Senior Member Array CowboyColby's Avatar
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    The reason for the knee instead of the choke first would be to stun him if not knock him out completely, going straight for the choke hold will be tougher if he isn't stunned a little first. You can't rely on the officer to get up in time or at all choke holds are great but they take effect faster if they guy is dazed or been hit a few times first and he won't have as much energy to loosen your hold especially if you followed the knee with pepper spray point blank when you knocked him down.

    I would much rather have the officers tazer in this situation to control the bg but doubt you could get it.

    What do you Leo's suggest or what would you like to see happen if you were the leo on the ground?

  11. #40
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    What do you Leo's suggest or what would you like to see happen if you were the leo on the ground?
    Being a LEO that works in "Gladiator School" I can tell you that I personally, won't speak for anyone else, would want the threat to me stopped. Having seen and dealt with the vicious so called "humans" that prisons develop, on a daily basis, has made my approach to situations one that is less reticent to using deadly force as long as the parameters of legality are met.

    Biker

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I don't think that you are going to find many cops that are particular what you do as long as it is effective and is not injurious to either the officer or you. While he/she would be grateful, I also don't think that any cop would like to see you severely injured helping him. Speed and effectiveness of action are imperative, everything else comes second.

  13. #42
    Distinguished Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    How long can you hang on? Me, I say cut to the chase, STOP the SOB right NOW! The only way to do that is with a bullet to the CNS, hence the contact head shot.
    Yep. In the story linked above, the BG was..... (A) a bodybuilder and boxer -and- (B) enraged. I'm no weakling myself, but I guarantee you I wouldn't try to subdue a guy of that size and ability when he's "on fire" like that.

    I regret the sidetrack, but since someone has to say it, let me make a couple of points based on the above linked story:

    1. The story stated that the mother of the BG's child had bought a handgun to protect herself from him, yet after a clearly justified shooting, she tried to sue the shooter. To me, this just adds fuel to the argument that one should never dive into an unclear situation and try to be a hero. Anyone can sue anyone for anything.

    2. I really hate to bring this up in this thread, but I will. This BG took several rounds from a .45 ACP to even be stopped, let alone killed. So for those who grab a .380 for "a quick run to the store," have fun.
    "I practice the ancient art of Klik Pao."

    -miklcolt45

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Without a second thought, help the officer. Check surroundings to make sure no further suspects or not walking into a ambush. No need for a firearm at this point get bad guy off of good guy using whatever means possible to stop the attack.Subdue and hold suspect if possible if not get him off the officer and he can run as far as I am concerned, if he decides to use force against me he has demonstrated his ability and willingness to use force on a trained law enforcement officer so under Arkansas law I must have the ability to retreat in COMPLETE SAFETY or I dont have to retreat therefore I would not retreat and use whatever force needed to protect myself and the downed officer.
    At the first safe moment, if the officer had not already get on radio simply call out officer down and the location and you would see lots of pretty lights coming.
    I don't think I would go hand to hand with this guy because we know for sure there is already one gun in this fight, the cops. If the bad guy draws the cops gun as I grab him from behind, both my hands are tied up on him and I'm liable to get a round of 40 cal. or 357 Sig, whatever the LEO is carrying into my chest from the bad guy. Do I order him to stop and lay prone, from 2 yards away, if he turns and trys to get up I fire, maybe. Do I put two COM in his back? Maybe.

  15. #44
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Your on your way home alone from work/function/etc in the city. You are equipped with your normal EDC. It is around 2330 on a Wednesday night and traffic is very light. The road is a typical four lane boulevard with a left turn lane in the center. Up ahead you see a marked patrol car stopped on the right side of the road with its emergency lights on and another vehicle in front of it in what appears to be a traffic stop.

    As you draw near, you see a uniformed officer on the ground on his back. His feet are toward you on the grass parkway and his upper body is on the sidewalk. There is a large male atop the officer pummeling him. Adjacent to the sidewalk is a large grass area fronting some sort of business building about thirty yards back that is all dark. As you slow you see the officer trying to ward off blows with his arms as the male continues to pummel him.

    You stop and as you exit your vehicle, you hear no sirens or fast approaching vehicles and see no other vehicles in sight. As you round the front of your vehicle, you are about ten feet from the male and the officer. Neither the officer or the male atop the officer, who has his back to you, shows any awareness of your presence and he continues to pummel the officer whose resistance appears to be weakening.

    What do you do?

    This is like the perfect storm of a scenario where you know who the bad guy is. I'd assist the officer

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    BikerRN,

    Being within view of septuagenarian, I hear you.
    The only variation from your solution I would entertain, depending on circumstances, is that if I got close enough without detection I might just crack him behind the ear with my strap, otherwise its drainage holes. In either case, there would be no verbalization.

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