The Drive Home

This is a discussion on The Drive Home within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by HotGuns Bang Bang Bang...Bang Bang . I feared for his life. The jerk went for the officers gun. I had no choice. ...

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Thread: The Drive Home

  1. #46
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Bang Bang Bang...Bang Bang.

    I feared for his life. The jerk went for the officers gun. I had no choice. I hated to do it...
    I'm sorry but I have to disagree W/ this post. This may indeed be what's neccessary to aid the officer but the way it's written here sounds like murder to me.

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Treo,
    I see some implied sarcasm Hot Guns response, perhaps you don't.

  4. #48
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    What do you Leo's suggest or what would you like to see happen if you were the leo on the ground?
    End it.

    Now. Not after you've dilly dallied with 911 and they wanted your name,location,date of birth,sex, mothers maiden name, description of perp,number opf police car,and a host of other questions that they ask you to keep you on the phone so that you dont get hurt.

    I am in pain, I need help now.

    If you feel the need to shoot, then shoot. Just make sure you know what you are doing. Dont randomly shoot without taking aim, because if you hit me you havent done me any good.
    At that point, I dont care if you whack him upside the head with a ball bat...just do it hard enough so that is are only two stories to tell...mine and yours. Make it count.Big flashlight, pitchfork, pocket knife stuck in the ear, just get that sucker off of me now.

    What I dont want you to do is stand there and yell at him. Yeah, I know that's what you were taught to do when you went to BillyBob's Excellent Shooting School of Defense. I've already yelled at him and he didnt listen to that either...the time for yelling verbal commands is long over and in the meantime I getting beat to oblivion and I'ts all I can do to maintain consiousnous. I am exhausted, I am in pain, I'm not even sure that I'll ever see my wife and grandkids again...so do SOMETHING, anything but do it quickly because my time is running out. Once I lose it, there is nothing that will stop him from grabbing my gun and shooting me with it...or even worse...shooting one of my buddys on shift with me that comes to my aid.

    Whatever you do ACT...and be decisive about it.
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  5. #49
    Distinguished Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
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    The "be a good witness crowd" may all think differently, but I think "be a good witness" is situational, and in this situation I'd just shoot first and ask questions later.
    I'm in favor of gun control -- I think every citizen should have control of a gun.
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  6. #50
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    I'm sorry but I have to disagree W/ this post. This may indeed be what's neccessary to aid the officer but the way it's written here sounds like murder to me.
    I fully expected you to disagree with that Treo. No surprise there.

    There is a difference between MURDER and KILLING, a difference that you dont seem to understand.

    When you have an active shooter...bodies are laying about, you get the drop on him, his back is turned...you shoot...is it murder?

    A cop on the ground with his face becoming one with the pavement, you shoot...it is killing or murder?

    Ever heard of the commandment..Thou shalt not kill?

    It's an English translation from Hebrew. The Hebrew version says, "Thou shalt not murder". Even the Bible distinguishes the difference between killing and murder and it is quite clear.

    Murder implys killing in cold blood, or in other words no reason or a reason that is unjustifiable.
    Killing means just that. A soldier kills another soldier...there is no murder to it. A citizen aiding a Police officer that may die because of the actions of another, so he shoots him...there again, not murder.

    So some dude jumps an officer, pounds him into oblivion,you arrive and if your previous posts are any indication of your reaction, you jump back in your car and leave, correct?
    I mean, you might get sued. You might get hurt. You might even get blood on your shoes. If you do happen to get out of the car and watch, because you are so indecisive or you dont want to "murder" someone, then you really arent of much use to the officer getting pounded are you?
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    Even if you were another officer rolling up on this situation, you'd call in "officer down." You just do that. If the LEO on the ground doesn't have the 20 seconds it takes you to do this, then you're too late on the scene. Get that call in first, then take it from there. You will have guaranteed that trained and armed responders are on the way and an ambulance too, probably.

    I like CowboyColby's flying knee. In class, we've practiced some techniques for breaking up and ending fights, and what a lot of people seem to want to do instinctively is grab a person from behind by the arms or shoulders. That doesn't usually turn out well for various reasons. Instead, I've found the head-grab from behind to be really effective. Try it at home. Have someone grab you from behind with one arm around your head and the other hand cupping your jaw. You'll see - you're pretty much helpless and you'll be going wherever the person wants you to go.

    This is also a good situation for CS because you can reach around and jet the perp right in the eyes. No matter how all this goes down, if you can end it without bullets you'll have a much easier time out on the other side.

    PS: Excellent post, ppkheat! Very appropriate to this discussion.
    I agree that ppkheat brought an excellent and relevent post.



    Normally, I would also agree that a call to 911 first might be in order. (BUT; not in this case.)

    A 911 call from a cell phone will take a lot longer than 20 seconds. (Been there done that!)

    Even "IF" a 911 call only took 20 seconds, It would "hopefully" take a 230gr, '45acp slug LESS than 20 seconds to stop the threat to the officer.


    The officer is already down; and there is a possibility he could lose his life in the next "ONE" or "Two" seconds. (Help, "on the way" is NOT going to do this officer any good.) In my mind, this officer needs help and needs it NOW!

    Besides:
    I'm fairly positive that the downed officer has already called in the "stop". Once the threat has been neutralized, I can "hopefully" use the radio to get help. (To me, this seems the "better" way to go.)



    As for going HTH?
    I direct your attention to the post that ppkheat referenced. (I do NOT think ANY hth skills wouldh've come in handy here. -and- At 50yrs old, I not interested in trying to BEST a BG; that has already BESTED a police officer.)

  8. #52
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    I fully expected you to disagree with that Treo. No surprise there.
    So some dude jumps an officer, pounds him into oblivion,you arrive and if your previous posts are any indication of your reaction, you jump back in your car and leave, correct?
    I mean, you might get sued. You might get hurt. You might even get blood on your shoes. If you do happen to get out of the car and watch, because you are so indecisive or you dont want to "murder" someone, then you really arent of much use to the officer getting pounded are you?
    I have already made it clear that this is one situation in which I would intervene.

    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    This is like the perfect storm of a scenario where you know who the bad guy is. I'd assist the officer


    This is a thread about cops, I have been asked not to participate, good day

  9. #53
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    I have already made it clear that this is one situation in which I would intervene.
    Gotcha.
    For that, I thank you.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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  10. #54
    Distinguished Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    A 911 call from a cell phone will take a lot longer than 20 seconds.
    Last two times I've called 911, in two different cities, response was immediate. In one situation, there was an overturned vehicle on fire in the median. As I recall, it didn't take any time at all to make that call.

    I appreciate Hotguns' perspective above, but I strongly disagree with him that in a situation like this you'd be tied up giving the operator details. What I'd do is dial, get the operator, say "there's an officer down and under attack, location is X, Y and Z, send police, I'm going to render aid." Leave the phone on, toss it on the seat as you exit the vehicle and good luck with the next part, whatever you decide to do.

    This is probably better than not getting that call in because this could be Mr Roid Rager Temple and this guy might eat a couple of shots and still be swinging. He might turn and shoot you as you approach. If things go badly, the "officer down" alert means that every officer in the area will be flooring it to your location. Your odds and those of the officer will be improved. Anyway, rendering immediate aid to an officer in trouble is very natural to me. I'm really astonished at that Temple incident where the big crowd of onlookers is just standing around, watching the show. That's pathetic, is what it was.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  11. #55
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    I'll add my thoughts on calling 911. I have an iPhone with a keypad lock on it. I have to turn it on, enter the code, pull up the phone, dial 911 and tell them what's going on. That's a lot longer than I want to spend on that. If anything, I'll use the officer's radio to call for help immediately after taking the perp out.
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  12. #56
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    Kick the BG in the head and shoot him if he gets up
    Sometimes I wonder who the old man in the mirror is....

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  13. #57
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    I appreciate Hotguns' perspective above, but I strongly disagree with him that in a situation like this you'd be tied up giving the operator details. What I'd do is dial, get the operator, say "there's an officer down and under attack, location is X, Y and Z, send police, I'm going to render aid." Leave the phone on, toss it on the seat as you exit the vehicle and good luck with the next part, whatever you decide to do.
    Here's the thing. YOU know to do that. Not many people do.

    Most people will do whatever 911 tells them and they will tell them to stay on the phone...because that is what they are trained to do. How much of a distraction is that?

    Now you have someone holding a phone,watching a cop get pounded that obviously needs help, wanting to help, but torn between doing what they are told to do and actually rendering aid and the whole time seconds are ticking away. That cop could literally be one blow away from death...we dont know. When time is of the essence, you have to ACT.

    Take control of the situation. Do what ever it takes. You'll have plenty of time to call when its over.
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  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Now. Not after you've dilly dallied with 911 and they wanted your name,location,date of birth,sex, mothers maiden name, description of perp,number opf police car,and a host of other questions that they ask you to keep you on the phone so that you dont get hurt.
    I will add this. There is one way to keep this to a minimum. TAKE CONTROL OF THE PHONE CALL. I tried to call 911 on a cell from my home. It was not life threatening at the time, but could become that way quickly. We had a power line down. I live in county A, but cell 911 goes to county B. I can throw a rock across the line. They transferred me to county A. When I told them the city I lived in she told me she was transferring me to county B. At that point I stopped her to explain what had just happened. We got on 3 way and figured it out.

    Lesson learned. My next 911 call went like this.

    911 what is your emergency?
    Give me XYZ dispatch immediately.
    Transferring.

    My point. Tell them what is happening and what is needed but don't put up with the extra BS that they try to get first. It's a freaking emergency, not an interview. All that can come later. Oh, the keywords to really get their attention are along the lines of officer down, shots fired, or I have a gun.

    But this situation looks like one where 911 is secondary. Cleanup Route 10.
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  15. #59
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    Bad guy is dead!
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  16. #60
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    Conditions based response . . . for my response to be most appropriate it needs to be consistent with the circumstances and events unfolding in real-time. My read of this one is to call 9-1-1 . . . after I have neutralized (as in stopped) the deadly threat being executed on the LEO.
    "It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end"____Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519

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