Standing Ground In National Forest

This is a discussion on Standing Ground In National Forest within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by MitchellCT Why? A bunch of guys on atv's with handguns vs. an ak-47...

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Thread: Standing Ground In National Forest

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Why?

    A bunch of guys on atv's with handguns vs. an ak-47

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  3. #17
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    A professional or determined invidual with a handgun will beat an amatuer with an AK everytime. Quietsage not calling you an amatuer just making a general statement.
    You should never, ever limit yourself in regards to tactics or shooting skills. Good tactics, not firepower, can mean the difference between living and dying in the real world.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Glad you're both okay. I enjoy the outdoors, really, I do! But I don't camp... I don't camp in the "wilderness." I don't think you could pay me to camp anywhere in AZ... what with the druggies/illegals and all.

    I do take my dogs out into the DNR property near me... I have run into a hunter or two... I stay on equestrian trails... I watch the deer and the pheasants (what few of them there are), and quail. I've seen a 'yote or two as well, which is why I carry a handgun. I've seen some fox...

    But I don't have to even think about "is this the route that illegals take through my state because it's just a jeep track?" And those thoughts probably would not even apply where you were camping... but they would be a concern of mine. Camping is supposed to be "fun"... It ain't "FUN" when I've gotta have an AK and a shotty... just to make sure i'm safe...

    While CtSketch prolly has it right... I certainly don't want to put my self into situations where I have to have a battle plan, and worry whether my partner is up to the task... Those times will be here soon enough... and we won't even have to "go camping" to find them! When those times come... am I prepared? yes. And I can "camp" and have a lot of wilderness skills (a bit rusty but they're there)from my younger days, I just don't think it's entertaining to use them on a weekend or vacation.

    Again, glay you're both okay... You lived to tell us about it!
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  5. #19
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Glad you're both okay. I enjoy the outdoors, really, I do! But I don't camp... I don't camp in the "wilderness." I don't think you could pay me to camp anywhere in AZ... what with the druggies/illegals and all.
    I think you are completely misinformed about AZ due to the media.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    The effectiveness of action, is to a great extent determined by the outcome of a situation.
    You did fine......this time.
    Taking heed of the comments here will help to insure that you do fine........if there is a next time.

  7. #21
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    A professional or determined invidual with a handgun will beat an amatuer with an AK everytime. Quietsage not calling you an amatuer just making a general statement.
    You should never, ever limit yourself in regards to tactics or shooting skills. Good tactics, not firepower, can mean the difference between living and dying in the real world.

    geez if those guys were professionals they wouldn't have been milling about staring, advertising their intentions, or harassing them, they would have come in the night and neither he or his girlfriend would have known what happened until it hit them. They were typical idiots probably from the city.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    A bunch of guys on atv's with handguns vs. an ak-47
    The guys on the ATV had a rifle as well..." Two guys in full camo with their rifles are coming down the track on one large ATV. As I said, this area is very hilly and the track slopes down quickly."

    Humm...

    I think being able to fight with a weapon is important...especially when you are facing people with shoulder arms themselves.

    An AK armed guy (who isn't in custody of his rifle...) having to protect an apparently untrained girlfriend with a shotgun who realizes she is the focus of two rifle armed men sounds a lot like a party!!

    If you aren't able to play at the level of the game which you need to win when it comes up - you loose.

    Doesn't matter if you are ready for the "average" encoutner on "the street".

    If you run into 2 guys with rifles who think your woman is hot (or you are the woman herself) out in the woods where nobody can hear you or help you, you either are able to deal with the situation as it is needed - Or you loose.

    No second chances.
    No crying foul.

    You loose.

    Don't like it? Too bad.

    It turned out fine this time. Great.

    Next time...throw the next 2 guys a 5th of Jack D., or have the girlfriend in question be wearing a tight halter top which shows off her absolutely perfect figure...

    Gee. I duno bout you, but that sounds like FUN time in the woods to me.

    Here's the song that will be playing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8-sM...feature=search

  9. #23
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    I guess living out here in the rural desert where the closest town is 30 miles away is too dangerous I should move into the city where I am safe. LOL

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    I guess living out here in the rural desert where the closest town is 30 miles away is too dangerous I should move into the city where I am safe. LOL
    Or you can be badder than the guys you would encounter...

    Life is a contact sport. Be harder than the opponent.

  11. #25
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    How about I just enjoy my life like I have the last 20 years in the desert and not worrying about it like I always have.

  12. #26
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    I don't think either side was engaging in a special forces combat scenerio. It does sound like they may have been up to no good. It sounds as if the girl friend can handle a shotgun, so....

    The only issue I had was leaning you AK against the truck, chambered, with the safety off. If it had slid down, it may have fired. I'm guessing there was no ranger station nearby, so I would have broke camp and moved to some place with others nearby, perferably not the two bozos you encountered.

    I think you did what you needed to do.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    AZ chevy, i realize that AZ ain't that bad, I still have friends there... Yeah, the press is over hyping some stuff.. but the friends with cabins near prescott tell me they've had their cabin broken into twice... nothing much taken... but garbage and trash left behind..trash that indicates illegals.

    No, I wouldn't worry too much about most of AZ... but if I were from out of state... I would certainly have those thoughts cross my mind... and why, on a camping trip in the AZ mountains do we need an AK and a shotty? That's not "camping" to me... that's SERE training...
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    I guess living out here in the rural desert where the closest town is 30 miles away is too dangerous I should move into the city where I am safe. LOL
    I would suggest that if you overestimate the safety of your surroundings, then you are setting yourself up for potential problems. Sometimes an arrogant attitude can easily be overcome by mindset, tactics and skill...whether you're 3 miles or 30 miles from the closest town. I submit that all of the paintball playing in the world will not help you if you have not trained properly with your weapon(s) of choice and if you have not developed a sustained Condition Yellow SA. I certainly hope you continue to be as safe as you think you are. Train Train Train... JMO

    With that being said, I think that MitchellCT, although painting a very bleak picture of this particular scenario, has pretty much hit the nail on the head. He could have prettied it up, but chose the shock factor. Hope it sinks in to the disbelievers. Again...JMO
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  15. #29
    Member Array quietsage's Avatar
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    Thanks for the comments. Mitchell, you certainly put the situation in bright light, appreciate that. Not breaking camp and moving was a mistake learned. I did have a handgun with me, Glock 17 that I failed to mention. The girlfriend could handle the shotgun but in a defense situation, well...nerves do funny things to different people. As for myself, I feel very competent with the AK. The scenario is unique (as all are, urban or rural) because hopping in the truck and trying to turn it to exit the track would be impossible, no Ranger station for miles and miles, nothing but trees and hills. It was us and them. Two guys on foot, dressed in camo with rifles in a forest that they are familiar with (as much as I am) probably would have been no match at all. I(we) would have lost that stand hands down. I figured at that long (but fast) moment as I heard the ATV turn and begin to return that the sight of myself with a weapon would be enough to deter a possible move on their part. As Biker put it, once they realized they might have to 'work' they moved on.

    Thinking about some of these comments a better approach would have been to get to cover on high ground fast(with long guns, pistol), watch to see if they moved on, once threat was determined to be gone...we get gone.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    He did the right thing. Like Olvet said, it wasn't a Recon vs Spetnaz type of encounter, like it's being made out to be. Although this incident may have been more dramatic for someone not used to confrontations, there are others that would have just told them to hit the???$&!$ road. From the sound of it, it was probably just a couple of bubbas taking advantage of a beautiful sighting in nature, while out scouting for a hunting place. It is more. about your resolve and intestinal fortitude than any weaponry you display. People can "sense" when you are not one to fool with. Even stupid inbreds get this.

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