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How'd I do? Orange at the shoe store

2K views 23 replies 17 participants last post by  Spec 
#1 ·
Today Mom and I went shopping for new shoes, she wanted some of those new shape ups and i needed new sneakers and some boots for work. As we paid and exited, I noticed a black, beaten up lowered Ford F-150 park at an angle in the fire lane and the passenger and driver both started looking us up and down. I was partially dressed for work, so I was open carrying. The passenger then got out of the truck and started towards us. I gave my Mom my bag and the key to the truck and told her to get to the truck now and get it open, Mom being Mom, she asked why, and then she saw the two guys and started moving. I slowed down to drop back behind her and turned my body so that I had my weapon away from the threat and began to run through options in my head. The passenger is still walking towards me and he is focused on me. I slowed my pace even further and looked him dead in the eyes. He then stopped abruptly turned to his right and started reading off the hours of the auto parts store that was next door to the shoe store. The driver continued giving me the hard eye untill I was in my truck and then they left once I was in my truck but they watched me the entire time they were in the lot. On the way home, Mom looks at me and goes, sometimes I worry about you carrying but I'm glad you were today. We both agree that something wasn't right about the two and I think I did well but I feel I may have overreacted, what do you think?
 
#4 ·
Let me rephrase what you just told us and you tell us if it sounds like you may have overreacted.

A couple of guys in a vehicle that needs some work parked outside an auto parts store. They see a guy with a gun strapped on his hip walk out of a shoe store which catches their attention. The guy is acting funny and staring at them for some reason, so they keep their eye on him. One of them gets out to check the hours on the auto parts store and the guy with the gun gets in a modified fighting stance. Worse, the guy with the gun is still staring right at him. So they keep their eyes on the guy until he leaves.

I have a feeling that two guys are sitting on their porch telling their buddies about how they narrowly escaped a guy with a gun who kept giving them the "hard eye" at the auto parts store today. :wink:
 
#10 ·
To answer your question Paramedic, I kept my weapon side away from them because I did not have a confirmed threat yet, I felt it was better to turn to the side and keep my body bladed so if the passenger suddenly rushed me before I could get to my gun, and I could not get my OC spray out and deployed, the side with my weapon was still away from him and I could still draw. It was purely a keep me between them and the possibility of a gun grab. That and looking back on it in hindsight, if they had innocent motives and no ill intent, I did not want to have the, "hey that guy has a gun." reaction especially combined with my "Gibbs" stare I was giving.

And Tally, it means I was just wearing my black pants and a white T-shirt, I didn't bother with a cover garment, and my vest and shirt for my security job was still at home, so i just didn't have a shirt to cover with
 
#11 ·
So, you were walking around in a duty belt anda tee shirt? I'd have been looking at you funny too.

BTW when I did security I wore Herman Commanders from Walmart (45.00$ and change) they supported my feet well ( I was on one post that required 9 miles of walking a night) and they were light enough to run in.
Mom being Mom, she asked why,
DW drives me nuts w/ this. I can not get it through her head that if I ever tell her to move she is not to ask why she is to do it.
 
#12 ·
lol, Treo, no I actually do not wear a duty belt, the company I work for does not supply our equipment, and I shrunk out of my old one, so for now I just use a thick dickies leather belt for carry at work. I don't carry alot of equipment, just my EDC with the addition of a pouch for OC spray and a handcuff pouch. I have seen some of our guys do that though and its hilarious. I ended up with some Cheyanne leather boots, made like tennis shoes, but with the added stability of a boot that goes over my ankle. I also got some cool new sneaks for half off. I got a funny look from my mom and the lady behind the counter when I made the comment, well, these shoes have a little brown in them, so it won't go with my black holsters.
 
#15 ·
lol, Treo, no I actually do not wear a duty belt, the company I work for does not supply our equipment, and I shrunk out of my old one, so for now I just use a thick dickies leather belt for carry at work. I don't carry alot of equipment, just my EDC with the addition of a pouch for OC spray and a handcuff pouch.
OK, so what would you think if you saw some guy in pants and a T-shirt walking around w/ a belt that had a gun , some cuffs and OC spray? It would definetely be a WTH moment for me.

As far as triggering other people's SA I was working at a site one night that had a lot of problems w/ people climbing the fence at night ( which made no sense because it was people leaving and they could have walked right out the gate) so if we saw anyone near the fence we were supposed to ID them. So one night I saw two people by the fence and I shined my light on them. I could tell at a glance these folks were not resident atheletes so I turnedmy light off. as soon as I did the guy bright beamed me right in the eyes w/ his light. I have often wondered if he was reaching for a gun too.
 
#13 ·
I'm with gruntingfrog on this one. What happened here is that you triggered someone else's situational awareness.

We get so caught up with promoting and developing our own SA, sometimes it's easy to forget that other people have it, too.
 
#16 ·
I think you did just fine. You don't know what they were up to; they don't know what you were up to. To ask questions, even something as innocent as, "Can I help you?" can be taken as a challenge in today's world of warped minds.

If I saw someone with a gun walking out and I was suspicious, I certainly wouldn't openly follow the guy to be a good citizen. That's puts me in a situation i don't need to be in.

Be aware, walk away, cover your six. Wake up to a new dawn.
 
#17 ·
When you observed the truck occupants looking at the autoparts store you interpreted the event as the "passenger and driver both started looking us up and down". . . better pay attention, maybe go to "Orange".

Sounds OK to me; you can't read their minds; you don't really know what they're doing or looking at.

You also don't know if they even saw that you were open carrying. . . but they may have observed your weapon and said: "WTH - look that guy's got a gun and interpreted that as dangerous . . . better pay attention, maybe go to "Orange".

Sounds OK to me; they can't read your mind; they don't really know what you are doing or looking at.

So all persons may have been "Orange" . .fine. "Orange" to me is a more heightened state of awareness____not a time to 'posture'___. (JMO)
 
#18 ·
"Orange" to me is a more heightened state of awareness____not a time to 'posture'___. (JMO)
Point of diction. There is never a time to "posture". More accurately, with security training, the OP, INccwchris, went to an "interview" stance and was deciding if he should verbalize. "Posturing" is appearing more threatening and, while it may work for some species in nature, IMO, is not an appropriate tactic for self defense.
 
#20 ·
OC spray in a pouch and a handcuff pouch and firearm with a white t shirt and black pants because he didn't have complete security uniform on.

I'd have looked at you funny, too, and would have decided some mall ninja wannabe gunslinger was glaring at me while shopping for shoes.
 
#21 ·
I'm starting to get the feeling that we activated both of our SA at the same time and started reacting towards each other and then when the first escalated their condition to orange, the second did as well. I think I might have been reacting to their code orange and been unaware of how I might have been perceived, I think if something like this happens again, once I enter my interview stage, if maybe a friendly wave and smile would be a good idea instead of just bristling.

You know Pistology, until you said that about training, I never actually consciously thought that I was reacting like I was trained. Now looking back on it I realize that what I did was literally almost move for move out of our handbook. I wonder if that would be good or bad when I'm not at work, those of you with training, do you feel you react the same at work as you do off work?
 
#22 ·
Better safe than sorry...
Some have made some 'funny' comments, but in actuality, someone watching you and then coming towards you in a menacing manner...stopping to 'pretend' to read a sign on the store (when you look at them) would seem a bit odd to me.

Stay armed...stay alert...stay safe!:hand10:
 
#23 ·
INccwchris, I think you're right. Especially when open carrying, be prepared to set off other people's alarms. A smile and a wave can go a long way to lower their alert level AND give you some information based on their reaction.

As far as training, there's not much you can do to prevent it from happening off work. The purpose of training is to develop the "correct" automatic responses to certain situations so when you're in a real confrontation you can focus on the threat while your body is doing what it needs to do.
 
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