Just curious what people would do if their car was stolen infront of their eyes... - Page 2

Just curious what people would do if their car was stolen infront of their eyes...

This is a discussion on Just curious what people would do if their car was stolen infront of their eyes... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Tangle The fact that we are out numbered 6 to 1 aside, if we shot at them, it would be in defense ...

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Thread: Just curious what people would do if their car was stolen infront of their eyes...

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Zundfolge's Avatar
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    Oct 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle
    The fact that we are out numbered 6 to 1 aside, if we shot at them, it would be in defense of property, not life, which means we'd probably see more jail time than the BGs.

    But, is it true in Texas, you can shoot to protect property?

    6 to 1 is a massive disparity of force ... and they are armed (although unarmed I would bet they would still be enough of a disparity of force that drawing your weapon would be warranted), so you're not shooting "in defense of property" you're shooting in defense of life.

    The odds make it unwise to open fire, but perfectly legal.

    Quote Originally Posted by gotammo
    If you shoot you become the aggressor which means they have a right to claim selfdefense, besides its just a car. As stated before 8 to 1 are not good odds.
    And you know for sure in advance that they are going to just take the car and leave?

    I would have to assume they will murder me regardless of whether I comply or not.

    Again, this is not about protecting property, this is about a serious threat of death or great bodily harm which is the central justification for use of lethal force in self defense.

    And still ... 6 to 1 odds suck so if you draw you're pretty much guaranteed not to survive so in this case I'd say that compliance gives you the best (albeit slim) chance of survival.

    Once they are gone you still might be legally able to use lethal force because in many states you can use lethal force to stop a fleeing felon (at this point though you're best bet is just to get on the horn to the po-po...and your insurance agent).
    Last edited by Zundfolge; June 26th, 2006 at 01:51 PM.

  2. #17
    Senior Moderator
    Array Rock and Glock's Avatar
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    I don't like F-350's anyway

    Is that with or without my wife in it too?

    Actually, I'd just let them go, and count some lucky stars I'm alive.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ: Buy These Stickers Here

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  3. #18
    Senior Member Array AirForceShooter's Avatar
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    Dec 2004
    Central Florida
    Call 911.
    I don't want to put holes in my pretty car.

    Gun control is hitting what you aim at

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  5. #19
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    Array rstickle's Avatar
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    I'd call 911. In Maryland if I shot at the BGs, I'd probably end up in jail faster than they would. And, I think that is still true in most states.

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Sheldon J's Avatar
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    As soon as they exit

    My 300 hp gets put to work, hit the electronic 4X4 and let the reinforced steel front end push that flimsy 350 into the ditch while they dive for the curb I drive away while dialing 911. You need the right vehicle for the right job.
    "The sword dose not cause the murder, and the maker of the sword dose not bear sin" Rabbi Solomon ben Isaac 11th century

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    The disparity of force is the big problem here. It's probably time to do the bug-out boogie. However, I wouldn't trust a group of car-jackers to remain calm and follow all the proper rules of firearms safety. One of 'em just might be holding his finger on the trigger and next thing you know - SHTF. Then you just do whatever you can.

    As was mentioned earlier, it's legal in Texas to use deadly force to prevent loss of property. To be pretty simplistic about it,
    1) BG in the act of taking your stuff -- good shoot
    2) BG running away with your stuff -- good shoot
    3) BG, running away, drops your stuff -- not a good shoot
    4) BG has your stuff and he's holed up (house, or somewhere) -- not a good shoot. You have the alternative to call LE to retrieve it. It's not immediately necessary to prevent loss of property.
    Naturally, there are many, many variables and situations and you can never, ever act indiscriminately. You have to use good judgement. Especially, you don't want to endanger someone else who may be in the line of fire.

    That being said, I have no problem with the concept of using deadly force in defense of property. Here's a situation I faced once (described on 1911.com a while back).

    When I lived in a second-floor Houston apartment a number of years ago, I happened to look out my window rather late at night to see a young man standing by my car, which was parked below my balcony. It didn't look "right" so I retrieved my Trooper MK III from the bedroom and came back to take another look, in time to see my car door opening. I stepped out onto the balcony, and said "Excuse me!" in a loud voice. My weapon was aimed, but finger not on the trigger. He turned and took off running across Richmond Ave. It wasn't necessary to fire at him since 1) he didn't threaten me with a weapon, and 2) he left, quickly, without my property. Had he gotten in the car, closed the door, and managed to start it -- different situation entirely. Yes, I would have shot my own car, and I expect the 158gr .357 mag round would have punched right through the roof and I'd have had a mess to clean up. I discussed the incident with Houston LE and the retired-LEO security guard, and they said the response was proper and within the law.

    As it turns out, there had been a couple of cars stolen from the apartment complex and a number of break-ins. From that time forward until I moved out 4 months later, I was told that there were none. The most logical explanation (by LE) was that this single individual was responsible and had moved on to a less "hazardous" area. He may have continued his wicked ways, but he didn't continue them at our little corner of the big city.

    On the other hand, if there'd been six of 'em with AK's, I'd have gone for more firepower, bunkered up and called for the cavalry. As a wise man once said, "A man's got to know his limitations."

    It's a very smart thing to think about and discuss these scenarios before they happen so your decision-making can be quick and clear when the time comes. Thanks for raising the issue and thanks to everyone for contributing.
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array MR D's Avatar
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    Jun 2006
    South Central PA
    this is exactly why my 88 Toyota Celica is NIJ-IIIA armored, man she cost a bundle ....

    let em have it, I hope the front wheel comes off at least a half mile away (been meanin' to change that cv shaft.... )

    I've been in some tight places, but if they are lettin me walk...that is what shoes are made for.....

  9. #23
    Lead Moderator
    Array rocky's Avatar
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    Unless I am in fear of my life I will not shoot. If they own F350's I doubt they will be looking to steal my old pickup.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson

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  10. #24
    Member Array fitznig's Avatar
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    Mar 2006
    haha, looks like everybody is more than willing to let their car go, total different reaction then i would expect,

    but i too would let my car go, but be very upset because its still worth a good chunk of money.

  11. #25
    Member Array fitznig's Avatar
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    Mar 2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott
    Don't F350s cost like $40-60K depending on how equipped. I'm hopping out and robbing them of their truck, they can have my F150.

    I would just activate the remote detonator and blow them up from my cell phone. Gee officer I don't know. You know these trucks have gas tanks that like to explode. What? You found C4 residue and a remote detonator? Well you know I did work for the government. Maybe they did it.

    Seriously, shooting at them would mean I was defending property and I would get to go to jail.
    That would be nice to have.

  12. #26
    Member Array calireserve's Avatar
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    Oct 2005
    Take my car! Thats what I pay insurance for!!

  13. #27
    VIP Member
    Array Scott's Avatar
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    The Old Dominion
    Quote Originally Posted by fitznig
    That would be nice to have.
    It's perfect because F150s have this huge fender cavity right over the gas tank. You put the cell on top in a weatherproof container and run the antenna to the top of the bed rail so reception is good. You just have to know the blast radius so you can watch, but not get hit by any debris.

    Cellphone and C4 plus misc. supplies = $500 (C4 is stolen of course)
    Totalling my 2004 F150 after insurance = $3000 est
    Seeing several idiot criminals come to a explosive end = priceless

    Just kidding of course. But fun to contemplate isn't it?

    Still gotta go with letting them have the ride and call it in. You pretty much set up the scenario so there aren't many other options. You took us to the point that we were already seperated from the vehicle and the BGs are fleeing in the vehicle, so it isn't self defense. That means that there are only a few states where you could legally shoot.
    Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Smack in the middle of wealthy on one side and dirt poor on the other

    I'm not advocating breaking the law...yet.

    I'm not advocating breaking the law, but it would seem to me this societal norm of giving everything up to anyone who decides it's theirs for the taking is what has put us in this boat to begin with. Question: Would you have so many of these scenarios if they were dealt with properly in the first place? Personal property is one of those things that makes America great. Why is it that it no longer holds any value?

  15. #29
    Member Array MarkM's Avatar
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    May 2006
    New Hampshire
    Step away, call 911 (giving them the license plates of the 2 F-350s and my car), call insurance.
    First rule of a gunfight: Carry a gun

  16. #30
    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    Mar 2005
    Quickly get out pad and pencil and write down the license plate number of the getaway car !! Not really.>>

    6:1 bad from the start........but......remember you said at gun point.......so...........in the gunshine state we are not obligated to start screaming and run for our lives if we are threatened with deadly force. We can counter with deadly force if we are in our homes(apt.included),in our vechs. or in any public place that we are lawfully in.

    Now I believe that I know what your gettin' at,so,if the BG's were in my vech driveing off,it WOULD NOT be a good shoot. While they were trying to force me out of it or threatening me while I were in it,....... I could kill 'em all. --------

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