Who needs a gun if you're just a nice guy? - Page 2

Who needs a gun if you're just a nice guy?

This is a discussion on Who needs a gun if you're just a nice guy? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have argued with people before about the concept of comply or fight back. Well, whoever you've had to argue that with, you won't be ...

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Thread: Who needs a gun if you're just a nice guy?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    I have argued with people before about the concept of comply or fight back.
    Well, whoever you've had to argue that with, you won't be arguing with me. Sheer statistical evidence alone supports the idea that the person who fights back quickly and vigorously usually emerges victorious. Or alive.

    Like I said above, it's a script, and the "victim" script involves handing over valuables, saying, "please don't hurt me," getting on knees and begging and so forth.

    A good example of this is in a scene in William Goldman's novel Marathon Man, which was made into a movie with Dustin Hoffman in the title role. In this clip, at 4:40, you can see it. The bad guy shows up at Hoffman's apartment, and accosts some gang members. He pulls out a gun and says, "OK, guys, let's move it." The leader of the gang laughs in his face and says, "blow it out your..." etc.

    This act of defiance goes way off script and ends the problem. The perp has a scenario in mind, and it involves the victim(s) doing what he says. Anything contrary to that plan requires an adjustment, and that's where the defender can seize the advantage. I've had to do this myself in real life and it does work surprisingly well.

    One point to remember is that "going off script" means really, really going off the gameplan. Guy says, "Give it up, beyotch," or the like, changing the script does not mean saying, "no." It means saying something crazy, or laughing and saying something a peer would say, or asking an extraordinary question, or lashing out with blinding speed. Whatever it is, it must be completely unexpected. The BG has to re-process all this and you either talk your way through it or fight it out. Whatever you do, your script will probably end better for you than his would.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  2. #17
    Member Array KTCameraman's Avatar
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    I think it is safe to say, this guy went "off the script"...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfJwJn8lqhM

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    I think it is safe to say, this guy went "off the script"...
    Yes, like Cenk says in the commentary, "That guy has balls of steel."
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockwave View Post
    Yes, like Cenk says in the commentary, "That guy has balls of steel."
    indeed....maybe the gun wasn't loaded?
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  5. #20
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    indeed....maybe the gun wasn't loaded?
    If you watch the video closely, it looks like the perp was a white teenager, and even though he began the robbery attempt with a mask on, he probably didn't sound very threatening. The clerk called his bluff - the kid wasn't ready to pull the trigger for the $40 in the till. Also, you can see the clerk get the punk into the mounted position for some MMA-style whoop-ass. He was trained and showed here the strength of character that regular practice imparts.

    That is also a benefit of H2H combat training for CCW owners.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    My guess is the whole thing was staged... somebody's gonna be in trouble....
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array Macattack's Avatar
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    wow i got sshed for laughing out loud at the denny crane thing. "heres the watch, wallet.....and gun POW!"
    "In those days, there was a lot more respect for other people and it showed in peoples values.... Today the word value means nothing more than something you get on the $1 menu at McDonald's." -BARK'N

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    It means saying something crazy, or laughing and saying something a peer would say, or asking an extraordinary question, or lashing out with blinding speed.
    didn't a victim just get shot in the head this week for laughing at the mugger?
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  9. #24
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    That is also a benefit of H2H combat training for CCW owners.
    def. I consider my Firearm secondary, as access to my body is more immediate
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  10. #25
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    "I figure, you know, if you treat people right, you can only hope that they treat you right. It's as simple as it gets in this complicated world."
    If you toss in the towel, there isn't much left but hope that they won't take everything. That's obvious and basically all he's saying here.

    The tactic took the young thug by surprise. Much as I admire the chutzpah to make the try, I highly doubt it'll work for 95% of the people out there. Why? The average armed robber simply isn't thinking that far ahead to where such a ploy would matter. With most robberies on the street, I'd bet such a stance would be taken as just another sign of weakness by the vast majority of robbers. One or two of these stories are nice, but for each one there are a dozen in which someone got knifed or shot for attempting to make nice-nice with the robber (would-be murderer).
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  11. #26
    Member Array Shackleton's Avatar
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    Wow. There might actually be hope for this kid. Kudos to the social worker, and he's lucky to boot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Sailor View Post
    I read a story last memorial day about a guy in the military being mugged by three thugs at gunpoint. They took his wallet, keys, everything. When the leader of the thugs opened the wallet and saw the military ID card he returned everything to the victim and said "Happy Memorial Day, thanks for serving."

    A patriotic thug, whoda thunk it?
    That one caught me off guard, but it garners a 'wow' as well. Life takes all kinds...
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    ‎"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell

  12. #27
    Member Array ncsteveh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    My sensei says always offer to buy the mugger a beer, LOL.

    Smart advise and also a part of dealing with jerks in a bar/club 101, keep sending drinks their way, sooner or later they have to go to the bathroom then.......... just saying

  13. #28
    Member Array Hall's Avatar
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    That is also a benefit of H2H combat training for CCW owners.
    Absolutely. Rely on yourself first!
    It means saying something crazy, or laughing and saying something a peer would say, or asking an extraordinary question
    On a related note, an English Psychologist made an observation where he sent participants into a convenience store and told them to take something without paying (a candy bar, gum, etc. the manager was informed and consented). On numerous occasions and with different clerks, the participants were instructed to ask the clerk “How tall is your fence?” upon confrontation. The clerks would often answer and the ‘thief’ would walk out the front door during the time of thought derailment. Interesting.
    If you think you'll lose, you're lost
    For out in the world you'll find
    Success begins with a fellow's will
    It's all in the state of mind.

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    I always love reading these stories. I really do.

    There was the story not too long ago about the older woman who did a similar thing. She gave the robber her money and then talked to him and prayed for him and when he finally left he actually said, "Thank you."

    I really do love these stories of someone turning a horrible situation into something good. Yeah, it's not likely to happen that way but if I saw the opportunity to help instead of hurt I surely hope I'd take it.


    But I'd have backup if it just wasn't possible.
    I may help them after I hurt them. But it ain't likely.
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