What do you when the police tell you to "Drop It"
This is a discussion on What do you when the police tell you to "Drop It" within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Guantes
Legalities aside, they have the physical ability to shoot you at any time.
I figured that's what you were saying. ...
September 18th, 2010 03:43 PM
I figured that's what you were saying. In the military, there's a saying that you salute the rank not the person. Same goes for cops. Like it or not, face-to-face a cop is gonna have their way with you. That's why we need to take care of the good ones.
Originally Posted by Guantes
'Clinging to my guns and religion
September 18th, 2010 03:44 PM
I'm less concerned with their legal abilities, as their physical and mental state. . . a frightened inexperienced responding officer that may have never drawn his gun except at the range and whose only police action has been traffic stops and sobriety tests is probably more dangerous in this situation than any other element.
An experienced officer in this situation (MWAG call to the local store, holstered firearm on a legal carrier) would probably not even engage the person carrying, or speak to him. He'd probably just walk in, see the "Man with a gun", and walk back to his car chuckling as he reported himself as 'clear' to dispatch. Since the OP's scenario has an officer yelling at you to drop a weapon that is securely holstered and not in hand, this officer must be inexperienced and full of adrenaline.
Yes, I'm right in my carrying a firearm in a legal manner. Ever heard the term 'dead right'?
September 18th, 2010 03:51 PM
While I do not disagree with what you said, I would suggest that the "rookie's" time spent with his FTO should address this type of issue and provide some insight, if not experience with same.
September 18th, 2010 03:59 PM
My uncle used to be a firearms instructor for a local PD (retired). Basically, most officers in non-urban areas only train with firearms enough to qualify. Then, they put their gun back in the holster, and interact with it as little as possible until the next time they are required to qualify.
I agree, there should be a lot of high-stress training on a regular basis. There should be just as much training on how to identify situations like this, where a reaction is NOT required on the part of the officer. There is just too little time spent on this kind of training in most departments. And, we have to remember that the people in uniform are also people, a lot like us. They have a higher level of training usually, and we trust them with more power, but they are just as human as we are, and just as prone to making mistakes. Their mistakes just have a higher threshold for damage than most.
September 18th, 2010 04:15 PM
I agree that there seems to be a significant disparity in training among the various agencies across the country. In addition, depending on area, there is a significant difference in the frequency that officers experience high stress encounters with lethal possibilities.
September 19th, 2010 05:15 PM
Heck, forget my life, I don't want to drop my $5,000 custom made engraved with gold inlay Beir Kimber 45 on the pavement!! Especially afraid it he let me set it down he would then tell me to kick it toward him. Mmmm... gotta get me a Glock!
EDIT: Why not drop your pants leaving the gun in the holster?
September 19th, 2010 08:01 PM
Depends on the officer and where in the country this occurs. I'm aware of a couple different MWAG calls that occurred just like the horror stories we all read about. It was a classic, heavy-handed, ugly cuff-and-stuff with all the trimmings, including asphalt shoved into the guy's face as he was angrily cuffed. While I suppose it's possible this guy angered the officers in question, that's not the information I heard from other witnesses to the take-down. So, as we know, there are all types out there.
Originally Posted by livewire9880
Amen, to more and more-vigorous, reliable training all over the country for officers that covers these high-stress situations. Costly, sure, but without heavy training we are going to be left with far too many inexperienced types who continue to deal with people in extremely heavy-handed, even "trigger-happy" ways when it gets a bit stressful.
Yup. In this specific situation, I'd be extremely careful to be moving slowly, show my hands, speak simply and carefully to identify that I have nothing in my hands, and follow the commands. With such unjustified comments that don't match up with the reality of having anything in the hands, God knows what the officer is capable of doing in the next 30 seconds until he gets his emotions and adrenaline under control. Very dicey time, that.
Since the OP's scenario has an officer yelling at you to drop a weapon that is securely holstered and not in hand, this officer must be inexperienced and full of adrenaline.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
September 19th, 2010 09:37 PM
Did you watch this video and listen real close? The soldier just back from Iraq tells the cops he means no harm. They tell him not once but twice, "Get up..Get up". When he starts getting up, they shoot him.
Originally Posted by retsupt99
Glock 26 XD9sc
Ruger SR9c Ruger LCP
September 19th, 2010 09:52 PM
Yep seen that. Definitely a bad shoot for the cop. Hope charges get filed on that one but I am sure they wont.
Originally Posted by tkruf
When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. - Thomas Jefferson
September 19th, 2010 09:58 PM
I was completely thinking that.
Originally Posted by OldLincoln
No way in he!! I'm going to touch my gun or holster, or even put my hands anywhere near them. I would definitely ask for clarification (like someone else said, how can you drop something you're not holding in your hand?), keeping my hands as far from my hip as possible.
September 19th, 2010 10:04 PM
I don't know the outcome, but charges were filed.
Originally Posted by ItsMyRight2
September 19th, 2010 11:37 PM
Officer Webb was acquitted in the criminal trial in June of 2007, was not welcomed back into the force and later filed for bankruptcy. In August of 2009 the county settled with Carrion for 1.5 million, and the civil suit was dropped.
Originally Posted by Guantes
Seems like it's still not completely over, however:
"Webb could still potentially face federal criminal charges for allegedly violating Carrion's civil rights in the course of the shooting. The statute of limitations for a potential federal action against Webb will expire in January 2011, five years from the date of the incident."
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