Aftermath of Premature Draw
This is a discussion on Aftermath of Premature Draw within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The wife tells me I'm premature all the time, but not on the draw.
Personally, I want to be in the "right" and not make ...
May 21st, 2012 06:46 PM
The wife tells me I'm premature all the time, but not on the draw.
Personally, I want to be in the "right" and not make any moral and / or legal mistakes when it comes to presenting a lethal weapon. I don't want to get arrested or scare someone to death. Therefore:
I would have to see, or be verbally threatened with a potential lethal weapon and / or in the process of being physically assaulted, robbed, car jacked, etc. I'm going to protect myself at all costs but I'm not going to jump the gun (no pun intended) and error on the side of caution, since the penalties for doing so are not acceptable to me.
I would much prefer accepting a few cuts and bruises rather than meet my new proctologist called BUBBA in jail.
I think, therefore I am...
May 21st, 2012 07:59 PM
I had two experiences when I was younger that taught me a hard lesson on being to quick on the draw. Since then, there has been several times when I needed to let someone know I was armed without drawing my weapon. I just thank God the BGs all backed down before I had to draw & engage.
To me, your scenario brings home the importance of having something else at you disposal other than a gun. If you find yourself in a situation where a BG is in very close proximity and gets the drop on you. You dang well better have some "options" other than trying to draw against the drop.
Guantes had a good thread on this once. But, sometimes you may need to do some type of distract, deflect & counter before you can bring a firearm to bear against a threat.
May 21st, 2012 08:16 PM
I suppose I'd roll out the obligatory "my bad"
May 21st, 2012 08:43 PM
If I've left myself with the lesser option by working on getting into my vehicle...meaning that I've done opposite of what instinct would have led me to do - walk around the vehicle to place a buffer between us - then I would issue a loud command to "STOP!!! DO NOT COME ANY CLOSER!!" while motioning for my strong side. My OC spray would already be in my hand, so that would be on target & ready to let loose. Any items that I was carrying to the vehicle could also become instant projectiles should I need a distraction to complete a draw.
"Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)
May 21st, 2012 08:59 PM
Makes my head hurt.
May 21st, 2012 09:16 PM
(Given the OP's restrictions - I can't change the scenario... I've already drawn my pistol):
Originally Posted by 9MMare
My 2cents: I'm not explaining very much. I'll call the police and explain:
- I believed I was being attacked
- I was in fear for my life
- I drew my weapon in self defense.
- No shots have been fired and nobody is hurt, but I request assistance.
- Give them a good description of both of us.
- If I've got presence of mind to do so, snap some pics with the phone of the scene and pertinent evidence/witnesses, then turn it off as the police approach (protected with a power-on code which means they'll need a warrant to search it),
If the situation warrants, make sure my pistol is holstered and my ID and CCW license are in hand. Let LEOs secure the scene. Cooperate - point out pertinent witnesses/evidence - but the only thing I'm saying beyond what I already told the dispatcher is where my firearms, knife, and anything else that could be construed as a weapon are located and, "Officer, I'm a little shaken up and I think I need to talk to a lawyer before I answer any questions."
This is a lot of stuff to do when adrenaline is coursing through my body, so it's a routine that I "chair fly" often in hopes that I can get some help from grey-muscle memory. However, I've never practiced it exactly this way: without shots fired, and nobody injured. Now I will. Good scenario!
May 21st, 2012 10:06 PM
This type of scenario is exactly why I always train using voice commands.
As written and without changing anything about the OP restrictions, the person drawing is either going to be justified or viewed by the "follower" as committing assault. There is a reasonable chance this is just some silly teen tucking in his shirt that was just drawn on. However a mindless teen wandering around is most likely going to react to someone they are only half paying attention so suddenly turning on them and shouting "Stop!" even before the recognize whatever I am holding. This alone may stop them in their tracks, save their live and save me the horror of shooting someone innocent.
In either case, the comment about all in is right on. As an non law enforcement officer and a mere CCW holder I am not aware of the training class you take where you analyze the facial features and palm gestures of a potential threat to decide if its ok now to re-holster and chat it up about your goofy mistake. Law enforcers probably have a lot more leeway in these issues and so be it. Again, I can run (not in the scenario as written though) and they can't so let them have different rules.
Being that is the case if I were so in fear of my life to draw I'm sure I'd be behaving like I was actually in fear for my life. I'd be barking out commands "Stop - get back - get down". I would treat the threat, that I thought was a threat, like it was a threat, and later command someone around to call 911.
If no one was around and I had to, I would not be calling unless the threat was gone (had run) or was no longer a threat (had followed commands to get to the ground and lie down hands out). Anyone remember Tom Cruise showing his palms and innocent "what me" look in the scene 'hey homey is that my briefcase'?
At that time I'd tell what was the truth "I am being attacked and in fear for my life". I'd also probably be having trouble breathing or feeling like I was going to pass out so I'd probably ask for an ambulance too. I'd speak to my lawyer, get medically cleared.
In my scenario I am pretty sure I would not even know I drew on an unarmed innocent person who actually had nothing but boxers in their waist until my lawyer told me after speaking to the police. By that point the chips will fall where they may, but nothing I would need to say or do would change.
On the flip side if, say, my brother was the one who was drawn on, as written, it would sound to me like there was insufficient cause and the CCW would have hell to pay. It probably would make no difference, but certainly I'd be more sympathetic if my brother scared the CCW so badly they ended up in the hospital than I would if the CCW drew then tried to chat the whole thing up and sweep it under the rug. Same view if I am on the jury.
Posts are for entertainment only. I have no training, database, background, knowledge of law, skills, or conviction of belief that anything I post is safe or relevant for your situation and bear no responsibility for any actions or events related to your interpretation of any of my post(s).
May 22nd, 2012 01:43 AM
In reality those that gave a response as to what they would do are right and wrong. What the original poster gave was a scenario. Unless one actually lives the scenario they will not really know how they will react. Some may do exactly what they say while others will do the exact opposite of what they say and others will do a mix of things. I am sure most of us have run all sorts of scenarios through our brains concerning self defense or possible self defense situations but until we do the "live" scenario there is not telling how we will actually react that that time.
To those that seem to believe this scenario will never happen to them keep in mind that you will never get hit by a car while crossing a street.
Last edited by Crowman; May 23rd, 2012 at 12:34 AM.
"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
--Thomas B. Reed, American AttorneySecond Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791
and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."
May 22nd, 2012 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by limatunes
Sorry, I don't make those kind of mistakes. If I had , I'ld been dead long ago.
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."
May 25th, 2012 12:47 AM
Based on the scenario as it's presented, I would re-holster and call 911. My report is that I was in fear for my life and felt I could not retreat.
Originally Posted by limatunes
Ben Cogito, ergo armatum sum. I think, therefore I am armed. (Don Mann, The Modern Day Gunslinger; the ultimate handgun training manual)
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