Aftermath of Premature Draw - Page 5

Aftermath of Premature Draw

This is a discussion on Aftermath of Premature Draw within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Hummel12345 So if somebody sees your gun because your cover garnment accidentially (read: not in a threataning manner, i.e. revealing the gun ...

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Thread: Aftermath of Premature Draw

  1. #61
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hummel12345 View Post
    So if somebody sees your gun because your cover garnment accidentially (read: not in a threataning manner, i.e. revealing the gun and holster) moved and the gun is in the holster, it isn't brandishing? (not related to the posted scenario)
    It depends. In Florida, it is not. Brandishing requires intent in Florida. An accidental reveal of one's CCW does not qualify.


  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    I would call the police and have them respond. I assure you if he does not call right then he will call later after talking to friends and family and report you as the crazed gunman in the parking lot. If the other person does not want to stick around great better for me. Get a description and LPN is possible.

    .
    The entire post was excellent, thanks, with a few grins as well.

    I esp liked the part quoted above.
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    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  3. #63
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    Thanks 9mm
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  4. #64
    Ex Member Array EB31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hummel12345 View Post
    So if somebody sees your gun because your cover garnment accidentially (read: not in a threataning manner, i.e. revealing the gun and holster) moved and the gun is in the holster, it isn't brandishing? (not related to the posted scenario)
    That is correct. It is not brandishing.

  5. #65
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    Well this thread got way off topic.

    It's so nice to hear that there are so many infallible people out there. So many people who assume that they could or would never find themselves in the position to have drawn a gun a bit too hastily.

    Let's not forget the thread, not too long ago, about the tired man who drew a gun outside of his hotel room because he thought the people parking next to him where out to get him. He THOUGHT he saw a threat but in the end he was mistaken. Because they did not see him (due to the darkness) and because he did not fire he was able to reholster and retreat to his room to sweat about the possibilities of drawing a firearm on a non-threat.

    Let's also not forget that we are not impervious to failure, fatigue, plays of light and sound. How many police officers have shot people with cell phones in their hands mistaking them for guns? How many fights have been started because the hearer misinterpreted a word or phrase?

    In a human world we have human limitations and if you think you could never find yourself pointing a gun as someone you are no longer sure is a threat you are living in the same fantasy world as those who think bad things will never happen to them or that there is no need to carry a gun.

    We carry guns as a means to defend ourselves from the unlikely and unthinkable. We think through scenarios to try to mentally prepare for the "what-if" of the unlikely.

    Being unwilling to conceive you would make a rash, sudden and possibly mistaken decision and therefor plan and think about how you would handle it is just... silly.

  6. #66
    Ex Member Array EB31's Avatar
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    Lima, No one was attacking you or making their comments personal....just stating their opinions on the subject at hand (and a few other subjects thrown in). Really no need for the "disgruntled response". I'm not sure I saw anyone here saying or trying to convey that they are infallible.

    My opinion....and this is merely my opinion on the matter based on my training, my personality, my life mindset, my personal experiences and my emotional base.....this should not be read into or taken as anything expect my observation and evaluation of myself over 36 years.

    I can clearly say, with 100% absolute certainty, that I have never nor will I ever draw my handgun (firearm) prematurely. There is a time to be cautious, a time to take evassive actions, a time to place your hand on/near your handgun and a time to pull your handgun from its holster.

    Your handgun should not be pulled from its holster merely on a "suspicion of a threat" if you are by nature a suspicious person. Not saying you are, just making a broad comment across the board.

    If someone is pulling their gun in the "time to be cautious" stage (as I believe I took from the OP) then they are clearly wrong, need more training or perhaps they might not posess the mindset to be owning/carrying a handgun.

    A nervous, overreacting person lacking in self confidence, legally armed with a firearm, is a danger to themselves and everyone around them.

    My .02 probably only worth half that, but I can life with that. I speak my mind at all costs.

  7. #67
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Lima.

    PM.

  8. #68
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    This is a very thought-provoking thread and one well worth exploring. I don't count myself among the invincible arm-chair warrior set and do accept that I might draw prematurely. I'd still make an effort to keep the gun behind my strong-side thigh and not point it until the last moment possible, and I think the scenario as given would allow for that.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul34 View Post
    It depends. In Florida, it is not. Brandishing requires intent in Florida. An accidental reveal of one's CCW does not qualify.
    Thanks for the clarification, and good news, since I'm in Florida (I should update my profile :))

  10. #70
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    Actimmy and Bobo are along the same lines as I am. We talk about situational awareness and listen to your spidey sense but sometimes your hair may be standing on end and there is not threat. Given I am already in the situation and the guy has been walking the same path, perhaps closing on me, my mind would be thinking car jack or other scenarios in conflict with it's nothing. While unsure you see the sudden move that puts you over the top.

    Would a reasonable person do that? Would a LEO or security guard do that? I tend to believe they would. We hear from LEO's on this forum about their experiences making them extra cautious and I'm interjecting here, perhaps a bit jumpy when somebody approaching from the rear makes a perceived threatening move. How many times do we read if you are stopped and make a sudden move you may be dead. Why not in a parking lot?

    Personally I would make the call and discuss it with the police. If the guy stayed and told them I pointed the gun down and holstered as soon as I saw he wasn't a threat and he didn't consider it a big deal, it may go easier. Ideally I'd get off with an officer on the scene warning, but if not, I did it and it is what it is.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    ......
    You are pointing a gun at them.... what do you do?
    You say, "sorry, I thought you were my stock broker"
    Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives.
    ---Ronald Reagan

  12. #72
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    If i felt threatened enough to "break leather" & found him to be holding nothing, i would hold him to the ground & call the police. If he was following me enough to make me uncomfortable then made a "move" (whether quickly towards me or looking as if he was drawing a weapon) then i feel he owes just as much explanation to the cop's as i do......better safe than sorry
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  13. #73
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    I think that your actions will to a large extent be predicated on you prior training and experience. You are dealing with a level of threat, that is as yet unidentified.

    I think the reaction of drawing and pointing of your gun at this potential threat, as opposed to drawing your gun unseen and placing it along your thigh is an example of this.

    The validity of the second choice to prepare to respond to an unindentified level of threat, without creating fear and anxiety in one who poses no threat, is in the countless times it has been done by LE on traffic stops.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by EB31 View Post
    Lima, No one was attacking you or making their comments personal....just stating their opinions on the subject at hand (and a few other subjects thrown in). Really no need for the "disgruntled response".
    I really didn't think my post was disgruntled. I am not disgruntled. Me = happy!

    My last post was merely to point out that many have professed that this kind of scenario could never happen to them and I equate that to the "anti" crowd saying that an attack worthy of a firearm-based defense "could never happen to them." I find it interesting to think that we will exclude thinking about one scenario only because it is based on the hypothesis that we MAY (or may not) have made a mistake.

    I'm not sure I saw anyone here saying or trying to convey that they are infallible. ...

    I can clearly say, with 100% absolute certainty, that I have never nor will I ever draw my handgun (firearm) prematurely. There is a time to be cautious, a time to take evassive actions, a time to place your hand on/near your handgun and a time to pull your handgun from its holster.
    LOL... I'm sorry but..

    So... no one is trying to convey that they are infallible but you? What makes you so sure you couldn't or wouldn't draw prematurely?

    You know what they say about never saying never.

    Your handgun should not be pulled from its holster merely on a "suspicion of a threat" if you are by nature a suspicious person. Not saying you are, just making a broad comment across the board.

    If someone is pulling their gun in the "time to be cautious" stage (as I believe I took from the OP) then they are clearly wrong, need more training or perhaps they might not posess the mindset to be owning/carrying a handgun.

    A nervous, overreacting person lacking in self confidence, legally armed with a firearm, is a danger to themselves and everyone around them.

    My .02 probably only worth half that, but I can life with that. I speak my mind at all costs.
    So if someone is going to their car and sees four thugs hanging out around a car four spaces over and they take their gun out of the holster and just hold it under their shirt or in their pocket (out of sight) while walking to the car (JUST IN CASE) then they are overreacting and shouldn't be carrying?

    Are you saying that all preemptive draws are irresponsible?

  15. #75
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    First, I think this a great thread topic and thank Lima for posting it.
    Second, I think Mitchell CT pretty much said what needs saying about afterward in post 57 (or there abouts).
    Third, the basic scenario is one of those darn if you do and darn if you don't, between a rock and a hard place type of thing. Pull prematurely could be an awful mistake and hesitating could also get a knife in your belly. There is NO good answer to this scene. Maybe for the guys, something like "Mercop's" cane. I don't see an equivalent for the younger people and the ladies.

    Fourth, for many of us this little prayer is needed: "Bring a cure to those who tremble at a shaking leaf."

    Each of us has vastly different experiences with danger, vastly different experiences which determine when we perceive danger and how we react to it. Some of us for good reason are very jumpy and others of us are just built "cool." Some of us have a "reptilian brain" that responds to everything fearfully and other of us just have that look which makes others respond to us fearfully.

    No one knows how they would react until they have been there, and that includes the folks who are certain they would never pull prematurely and those who "know" they would, but wouldn't in reality.

    These scenarios are a great illustration of the limitation of a handgun as a defensive weapon given our complex laws. And that, I'm sorry to say, is the way it is. All we can do is play the cards as they are dealt and hope to go home with our money.

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