Shot from 75' takes out BG
This is a discussion on Shot from 75' takes out BG within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=12407323
I often hear that most times you just need to be able to hit a target from 0 - 15 yards. It's a good ...
September 19th, 2010 10:13 PM
Shot from 75' takes out BG
I often hear that most times you just need to be able to hit a target from 0 - 15 yards. It's a good thing this officer could hit a small target at 75 feet.
Anyone seen any real data on distance for defensive shootings?
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September 19th, 2010 10:18 PM
I think that that is the distance often practiced because situations 75' away would allow John Q. Citizen to get away from the problem.
Originally Posted by Coder
In the case of the above shooting, the police/guards were not leaving, but rather going TO the problem. In that case, shooting from a distance is probably what was needed.
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September 19th, 2010 10:20 PM
Well, I remember the account here where 2 officers stopped and checked a guy, and a warrant came across. When they went to arrest him, he pulled a gun and was only 15 ft away from them. They didn't not count how many shots the BG made, but the 2 officers fired off 68 rounds as they were all moving quickly around to avoid getting shot. No one hit anyone ..... the police bullets all mainly went into a house behind the BG. The BG gave up because he ran out of ammo. No one was hit, and no one was hurt, all the time within 10-20 ft of each other. The house needed a lot of holes patched.
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September 19th, 2010 10:37 PM
75 feet away and you could not avoid firing your gun? Good luck convincing the jury about that . The article is about something totally different.
Originally Posted by Coder
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September 19th, 2010 11:24 PM
Plus one. The BG had better have started shooting at 100'.
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September 20th, 2010 09:36 AM
I don't practice 75' away because if a threat is that far I can run away!!! and if its a loved one 75' away with a BG I certainly am not going to try and snipe them with a pistol and risk hitting who I am trying to save.
September 20th, 2010 10:20 AM
I practice out to about 35-40 yards with my snub nose (and will expand that with practice...a long time ago, I used to practice out to 75 yards or more with a 4" 22). Not because I think I'm likely to open fire with a 5 shot revolver at that distance, but because if I can get reliable hits at 50 yards, then I'll find it easy at <10. And because I like shooting and it is fun. But it is also important to practice at close range, to remind oneself that you can get reliable hits without using the sights, without using the 'proper' stance, etc. And for a SD shooting, the odds are very good that it will be close to contact range.
September 20th, 2010 11:09 AM
Lessons learned: if you're an unarmed and elderly security guard you better be able to think on your feet, and anything can happen. That whacko could have taken a citizen under fire at 25 yards just as easy as a LEO. Train for everything and learn from grandma that a plan and a working brain is as important as a pistol.
And if you've never reached out far with your CCW, try it. It's fun. I remember an old speed limit sign that was in the trash pile where we used to shoot. At 100+ yards .38LRN would blow right through it from a snub, and with practice you could hit it every time.
Try not to screw up so bad they name the screw up after you. (Station 15 saying)
NRA Certifed Instructor
September 20th, 2010 11:39 AM
wow, was this great shooting or luck?
guess it doesn't matter.
Courageous and ballsy cop. congrats.
September 20th, 2010 01:31 PM
picture yourself in the open with an aggressor armed with a rifle at 75' (25 yards)..he could take you out in a heartbeat if he draws a bead on you...would it be useful to have the skill to take him down or at least wound him to be able to place distance and possible cover between the 2 of you?....or are you gonna just run away and hope the rifle which may very well be effective up to 200 yards or more is not being manned by a very good shot?....you think youve got that kind of bob & weave in you?...
or....he is drawing a bead on your family on the beach as you return fro the restroom...he has already taken our 2 sunbathers and who knows how many before your family is next....you have no clear path to approach him without him seeing you but a shot at 25 yards....
sounding possible now?...as possible as othe rscnearios youve participated in before?....
September 20th, 2010 01:58 PM
When target shooting, I shoot that far and much farther, but for the bulk of my defensive shooting training, I practice well inside of 50 feet and a large amount at 3 - 15 feet.
I agree with ret in that for John Q. Citizen, 50 feet and beyond usually allows one an opportunity to flee the danger zone, unless you are already being fired upon.
But even if the odds are that your shooting event will be at "bad breath" distance, there are certainly any number of plausible scenarios where you may need to engage someone at or beyond 75 feet.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
September 20th, 2010 02:06 PM
One thing I'll add is that shooting at longer distances, while certainly not the "norm", allows one to focus on accuracy that wouldn't be evident at closer distances.
You need to put the bullets where they need to go. Distance shooting helps with this.
September 20th, 2010 02:10 PM
Yes 25 yards is a distance from which you can flee but what if you cant. In reality 25 yards is not that far. The main dining room of a restaurant, the auditorium inside a church is much bigger, a gym at your kids basketball game if you are engaged or the situation forces you to take action could you?
This topic has been discussed before on here and yes most SD shootings take place at much closer but we can't choose are battles sometimes they choose us so I go back to my question.
If you were engaged or the situation forces you to could you make the shot?
"A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013
September 20th, 2010 02:21 PM
Originally Posted by retsupt99
Comparing a police action of _offense_ to the conditions of a civilian (who is NOT a police) toward defense, does not compute.
Police go toward and use arms as going into danger. Civilians go away from and use arms to support escape from danger.
This story is more akin to a military enlisted persons using their firearm to counter a threat at X distance; There is no reasonable relation to that of civilian _self-defense_ use of firearms.
But also in the real world we live among it is not unreasonable for a civilian to possibly find them self within say a 75' bubble of imminent danger with no reasonable means of avoidance nor escape.
As an example...
"75' Wide Ultra Series straight wall/arch roof COMPETITION Indoor Riding Arena! CHOOSE from 80' to 240+' Lengths!"
Source - http://www.barns2go.com
Buildings like this can be found all over including in my direct experience at local, county and state fair grounds where I regularly take my family, as armed, to enjoy events held under structures just like this in dimension and usage type. There are no interior walls and the floor space is typically completely open.
A threat from one far wall as armed with a firearm and intent becomes a real threat to all within the structures full air space eb it side wall to side wall (75' as advertised) or end to end (80 to 240' as advertised).
It all depends on the circumstance in specific.
But averages do not support long shot defense shootings by civilians or police, as with handguns.
- Janq shoots bullseye and could make that shot *
* My stage three (Rapid fire @ 2 strings of 5 rounds within a :10s max per string) bullseye competition target @ 50' from Monday Sept. 13, 2010. I was shooting strong hand only using a fellow RSOs firearm that I'd never handled or shot prior.
This falls under precision shooting with a handgun.
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
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September 20th, 2010 04:22 PM
When at the outdoor range, I typically end the practice with the last mag at 100 yards.
I usually get 2 or more (out of eight .45s) in a standard "Q" handgun target.
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