How would you have handeled this?-- Man chasing woman with knife

This is a discussion on How would you have handeled this?-- Man chasing woman with knife within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; And very few, if any, departments mandate the use of the Taser against lethal force. It is optional on the part of the officers....

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Thread: How would you have handeled this?-- Man chasing woman with knife

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    And very few, if any, departments mandate the use of the Taser against lethal force. It is optional on the part of the officers.

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  3. #17
    Member Array Rivers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justjim View Post
    Now what if you were a LEO and and came on that scene, what would you have done, knowing that your actions were going to be judged not only by your department but by every news agency in the area and probably by the DA and grand jury as well?
    While many seem to have forgotten this, LEO is a liable for their actions just like the private citizen. LEO is hired by the public to enforce the law and enhance public safety, duties that the private citizen is not hired to fulfill. However, if a LEO breaks the law, he should be held liable for that and punished similarly to the non-LEO. FWIW, if and when I ever pull my concealed handgun with the intent to use it, you can be sure that the expectation of significant legal scrutiny is on my mind. As the saying goes, "You own every bullet." The only difference between LEO and me is LEO has a union lawyer and gets the benefit of the doubt. I don't have those luxuries.

  4. #18
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    The only difference between LEO and me is LEO has a union lawyer and gets the benefit of the doubt. I don't have those luxuries.
    Not all agencies give their LEO's the benefit of the doubt, and I know that from personal expirience.

    The private citizen has a luxury that the on-duty LEO or state mandated "duty to act" LEO doesn't have, they can simply walk away. I'm somewhat blessed in that I have no duty to act when I'm not on the clock. In fact the memo says, "All actions taken off duty will not be considered within the scope of employment."

    Biker

  5. #19
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    Normally, I just want to be a good witness, but with the situations given and not knowing the facts, this guy might have been shot.
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  6. #20
    Ex Member Array EB31's Avatar
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    Based on the scenerio provided....my initial thought is that I would have shot the subject had he not stopped advancing on the victim after a verbal warning.

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
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    I have never understood the insanity defense or many of the other ones that have been tried.
    it really is as simple as it sounds.

    Q: did he/she do it beyond a reasonable doubt?
    Yes: guilty
    No: they walk out.

    NO its not my fault because of xxxx or yyyy.

    now for the question.. but he would have been shot seeing that.
    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
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  8. #22
    Member Array bomber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justjim View Post
    First off I agree with what has been posted here. But I would also like to point out to all of you who CC and OC. This is exactly what police officers face almost every working day of their lives. This is just exactly the kind of situation where an LEO must quickly decide what is happening and then take the appropriate action. Now what if you were a LEO and and came on that scene, what would you have done, knowing that your actions were going to be judged not only by your department but by every news agency in the area and probably by the DA and grand jury as well?
    tase him bro

  9. #23
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    An elderly man armed with a butter knife........without more specifics such as size and so on I would not shoot this guy. Hands on, try to talk him down get between him and victim yeah probably.
    Be prepared to up the stakes if needed but, again with no more information, I think I can disarm him without having to use my firearm.

    As far as the LEO questions and comments the officer I would hope have enough training to disarm/talk him down without resorting to his firearm. The tools available to him I hope would include a taser or other less than lethal options. Yes the taser should be employed with lethal force backup if at all possible. Should for whatever reason the officer shot and killed this guy he would probably been crucified in the press and by the public for shooting a mentally handicapped grandfather.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  10. #24
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    If he had "snapped out of it," he would obey my command to drop the knife. Then 911 and let the police take over.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tbrenke View Post
    I have never understood the insanity defense or many of the other ones that have been tried.
    it really is as simple as it sounds.

    Q: did he/she do it beyond a reasonable doubt?
    Yes: guilty
    No: they walk out.

    NO its not my fault because of xxxx or yyyy.

    now for the question.. but he would have been shot seeing that.
    Dementia /Alzheimer's... In it's advanced stages, your brain actually "forgets" to keep basic bodily functions working... you "forget to breathe" your heart "forgets" to pump (the brain forgets to tell it to)... Many paranoid episodes can precede the advanced stages.

    Imagine, if you will...

    You find yourself in a thing traveling at a speed so fast you cannot imagine it... things are whizzing by... there is another "entity" sitting next to you that seems to control this thing you are "in." Suddenly the conveyance stops.. the other entity makes sounds at you... you touch it with a shiny object... it starts to disappear.... you "go" after it...

    almost sounds like a "dream sequence" doesn't it?

    then you "wake up", and you see that your favorite nurse is hurt... and you try to help her...

    That's Alzheimer's... There but for the grace of god go we all sooner or later...
    It could be worse.
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  12. #26
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Dementia /Alzheimer's... In it's advanced stages, your brain actually "forgets" to keep basic bodily functions working... you "forget to breathe" your heart "forgets" to pump (the brain forgets to tell it to)... Many paranoid episodes can precede the advanced stages.

    Imagine, if you will...

    You find yourself in a thing traveling at a speed so fast you cannot imagine it... things are whizzing by... there is another "entity" sitting next to you that seems to control this thing you are "in." Suddenly the conveyance stops.. the other entity makes sounds at you... you touch it with a shiny object... it starts to disappear.... you "go" after it...

    almost sounds like a "dream sequence" doesn't it?

    then you "wake up", and you see that your favorite nurse is hurt... and you try to help her...

    That's Alzheimer's... There but for the grace of god go we all sooner or later...
    Unfortunately a danger to society is still a danger to society...someone elses condition should not trump my right not to be stabbed in the face....
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  13. #27
    Member Array eggs's Avatar
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    Pepper spray, if that doesn't stop the threat, i'm tackling him and we are going hand to hand. The last resort would be to shoot.
    I carry a gun to protect myself & the people I love from the Monsters that roam this earth.

  14. #28
    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Dementia /Alzheimer's... In it's advanced stages, your brain actually "forgets" to keep basic bodily functions working... you "forget to breathe" your heart "forgets" to pump (the brain forgets to tell it to)... Many paranoid episodes can precede the advanced stages.

    Imagine, if you will...

    You find yourself in a thing traveling at a speed so fast you cannot imagine it... things are whizzing by... there is another "entity" sitting next to you that seems to control this thing you are "in." Suddenly the conveyance stops.. the other entity makes sounds at you... you touch it with a shiny object... it starts to disappear.... you "go" after it...

    almost sounds like a "dream sequence" doesn't it?

    then you "wake up", and you see that your favorite nurse is hurt... and you try to help her...

    That's Alzheimer's... There but for the grace of god go we all sooner or later...
    fine and dandy, but that still does not cover the facts. woman with a bloody face screaming for help. guy with a bloody knife running after her. that qualifies for deadly intent and not acting could cost that woman her life. I will be involved and he will not like it.
    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
    There are always too many Democratic, Republican and never enough U.S. congressmen.

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    It depends.

    While hand to hand is generally the wrong approach, along with using a taser, when confronted with someone armed with a knife, it depends on the totality of the situation.
    This sort of scenario is no a guaranteed automatic shoot.
    This is one whee you really would have to be there to call it.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

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  16. #30
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Exactly. Although he was able to stab her sitting in a vehicle, he could still be a physical wreck.

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