Shoot or Not to shoot

Shoot or Not to shoot

This is a discussion on Shoot or Not to shoot within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So this weekend I was with a friend coming from a bar so I wasn't carrying at all (this was Saturday night) so after we ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array MuddyAlaskanZJ's Avatar
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    Question Shoot or Not to shoot

    So this weekend I was with a friend coming from a bar so I wasn't carrying at all (this was Saturday night) so after we dropped a friend off--mind you I wasn't the one driving either.--anyways so we were driving and we were stopped at a light where 4 guys were walking dressed in plaid outfits of some kind and one of them stared at me and pointed and pointed a gun at me. He didn't do anything as the light turned green but the fact that he pointed the gun at us in my friends car with the windows up and the fact he was yelling made me paranoid. What would you have done in this situation? Even IF I was carrying I wouldn't have shot or pulled out my gun unless he fired first or acted more threatening towards us in the car. I am curious what anyone else would have done in this situation. VERY scary getting a gun pulled on you that is for SURE!


  2. #2
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Yes, it is very scary having a gun pointed at you.

    Since you weren't the one driving your options were limited to praying or shooting, unless you decided to bail out of the car to seek cover and or engage in a gunfight. I won't tell you what I would've done, but I will give you some options, beyond those I've already typed.

    Being that you're in a 2,000 pound bullet, the car, that also provides a way to flee the scene to safety I wouldn't be suprised if the gun holder becomes a speed bump as I am getting my butt to safety if he was standing in front of the vehicle. I'm not a fan of engaging in gunfights when I have a better felon stopper at my disposal. I'd rather undergo an investigation for running somebody over in defense of my life than a shooting/homicide investigation.

    Shooting from a moving vehicle is difficult, and often results in misses that you are responsible for. Heck, you are responsible for every bullet you fire, misses and solid hits. There is no way to tell, from your post, if his amigos were acting in concert with him. Even if they were, you can bet that those that survive will say they weren't.

    Shooting through window glass, especially the front window, tends to deflect the bullets path. Remember, the bullet must pass through a curved surface and then continue to the target. So, my question to you is, do you know if your bullet will deflect upward or downward from where you would shoot from? Also, after passing through that barrier, will hit hold together well enough to stop the threat and penetrate deeply enough?

    Just some food for thought. I will also state that pointing a gun at me places me in fear of my life, and meets the legal requirement for using lethal force in the described scenario.

    Biker

  3. #3
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    You did get a description and call the Anchorage PD, correct?
    Last edited by RETSUPT99; September 27th, 2010 at 09:50 PM.
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  4. #4
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyAlaskanZJ View Post
    So this weekend I was with a friend coming from a bar so I wasn't carrying at all (this was Saturday night) so after we dropped a friend off--mind you I wasn't the one driving either.--anyways so we were driving and we were stopped at a light where 4 guys were walking dressed in plaid outfits of some kind and one of them stared at me and pointed and pointed a gun at me. He didn't do anything as the light turned green but the fact that he pointed the gun at us in my friends car with the windows up and the fact he was yelling made me paranoid. What would you have done in this situation? Even IF I was carrying I wouldn't have shot or pulled out my gun unless he fired first or acted more threatening towards us in the car. I am curious what anyone else would have done in this situation. VERY scary getting a gun pulled on you that is for SURE!
    How much more threatening can it get that having a gun pointed at you? gonna wait till the bullet penetrates your skull to start firing?
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  5. #5
    Member Array merlin82plus's Avatar
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    It might seem straightforward to some, but for me the outcome (if you shot) is less than predictable. Do you hit the right guy, or a bystander ? Even if you're in a state where the BG's friends are as guilty as he is for threatening someone with a weapon, you are likely to be sued in a civil case after the shooting, even if you hit the right one. Luckily the asshat was just playing macho in front of his buds, and he did not fire. If you did produce a weapon, chances are good the guy would have fired, and you're stuck in the car. I guess I'm with the guy above who says use the car as weapon if necessary, but get the heck out of there. And get a description off to the folks at 911 quick. Can't be too hard to find 4 knuckleheads dressed all in plaid !

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    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Yup, hood ornament comes to mind.
    Last edited by gottabkiddin; September 27th, 2010 at 06:26 PM. Reason: spelling
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  7. #7
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    Call 911 then snap a couple pictures with the phone camera. Email the pictures to the police.
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    VIP Member Array PAcanis's Avatar
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    I hate these kinds of scenarios. Judgment call scenarios. Is it a true BG or just someone acting stupid?
    I was in my mid-twenties and a bit wild back then. We were all (6-8 couples, dogs, kids) camping in a secluded spot when in comes a friend of a friend, hanging out the car window with what we found out was a BB gun pointed in our general direction. And we were all armed, my 44 in a shoulder holster, someone else's Python on his hip, but we all stood there and did nothing and then one of our group said, That's just Ricky... okaaay...
    Should we have done something? He's the one that had "the drop" on us. And if anyone did do something, it could have been very bad.
    There's no accounting for stupidity when you think you are making a joke.

    If you had had your gun and made any kind of movement, who knows what this nutjob would have done. Said, whoa I'm just playin; fired; who knows? Maybe his buddies draw, too? I would have split out of there fast. Then phoned it in.

  9. #9
    Member Array Sledzep01's Avatar
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    If I am driving, I hit the gas.
    As a passenger, if I was armed I would have drawn my weapon. If it came up to the ready position and he was still pointing his at me I would have shot.
    When a gun is pointed at you it is NEVER a joke. Afterward they may say they were joking, but it certainly was not a joke while it happened.
    I certainly would have called 911 with a description and never let them from my sight. Yes I would be 50+ yards away but I would have directed the police directly to them...

    Sled

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAcanis View Post
    I hate these kinds of scenarios. Judgment call scenarios. Is it a true BG or just someone acting stupid?
    Sorry, but anyone who points a gun at me is WAY past stupid and is a BG and is going to be responded to in kind if at all possible. If he's just "playing" there's nothing like getting a gun pointed back at you or the cops hauling your butt to jail to make you rethink your "prank."

    That kind of stuff is not funny, it's not a prank and it's not a joke.

    I really do hope you at least called the police on this guy.

    Personally, at the passenger, there's really not a lot you can do, but I'll tell you one thing my gun would be out of its holster (perhaps not visible yet) and I would be telling whoever is driving to GO! Red light or not. If we got pulled over I'd be more than happy to tell the officer why we ran a light.

    My cell phone would be out and I would be making that 911 call.

  11. #11
    Member Array Greg Foster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    You did get a description and call the Ancorage PD, correct?
    That's what I would have done.

  12. #12
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    If you didn't call 911, you essentially condoned the guy's actions. A pointed gun is always a threat. fortunately, you escaped without harm. The plaid suit itself was reason to shoot!
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  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Some fool has been watching Gran Torino too many times.

  14. #14
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I hate these kinds of scenarios. Judgment call scenarios. Is it a true BG or just someone acting stupid?
    This scenario is real life.

    There is no acting in this, it's the live version. Their is not much judgement needed in this case. Do I shoot or run the (insert choice words here) over? The OP didn't start this game, but he dang well better be able to finish it. The oxygen waster started this game, and it would be my earnest endeaveor to see that he stops consuming oxygen, so that the threat to me and others can cease.

    If you act stupid you will be treated as stupid. That is as it should be. If you think this is a judgement shoot you need to go back to school.

    Biker

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array PAcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    This scenario is real life.

    There is no acting in this, it's the live version. Their is not much judgement needed in this case. Do I shoot or run the (insert choice words here) over? The OP didn't start this game, but he dang well better be able to finish it. The oxygen waster started this game, and it would be my earnest endeaveor to see that he stops consuming oxygen, so that the threat to me and others can cease.

    If you act stupid you will be treated as stupid. That is as it should be. If you think this is a judgement shoot you need to go back to school.

    Biker
    Since the guy wearing plaid did not fire whatever he was holding (real gun, squirt gun with vodka in it...) it seems to me he was acting. Acting like some kind of macho moron. I do not understand you seeming to know there was no acting involved here, but I'm not going to say you need to go back to school. That was uncalled for. I don't care if you do have over 4000 posts and I'm a newb to this forum.
    There are judgement calls that need made everyday. Ask any LEO. This was a very real threat which diffused itself without anyone getting shot or ran over, or spending 30 grand to prove you were justified in doing so. Four guys who just left a bar that run someone over for pulling what looks like a real gun on them could get ugly quick for the good guys. Let's try to keep this respectful and maybe we can all learn something here.

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