"active shooter" response scenario - Page 6

"active shooter" response scenario

This is a discussion on "active shooter" response scenario within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by TedBeau But wouldn't and elevated position also make any misses angle down toward innocents behind the shooter? I tend to think that ...

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Thread: "active shooter" response scenario

  1. #76
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    But wouldn't and elevated position also make any misses angle down toward innocents behind the shooter? I tend to think that 10 seconds after the first shot most every one is either bunched at the exit, which of course probably swings IN, or on the floor. Therefore I still feel croached behind my table for concealment gives me an UP angle shot at the shooter which passes over the heads of anyone beyond him. Of course those that run between me and the shooter are still a problem.
    I guess another thing to consider is the greater good. We we assume that he is going to kill maybe a dozen people, and we do happen to hit a bystander in the course of stopping the shooter, as terrible as that would be it's still a minus 11 for the number of victums.
    in this situation the shooter is in the front of the room...presumably people would be headed away from him and toward the exits at rear and/or sides...a shot from a high angle has less chance of hitting innocents as it passes over those between yourself and the intended target and due to its downward angle if it exits his body or misses its mark its path is down toward the floor as opposed to straight across the room where there would be more likelyhood of hitting others...

    the more i think about the high vantage point the more i like it...although it takes away my charge behind a wall of bullets solution....


  2. #77
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    TB,
    I agree that there are potential problems with any solution and even in the moment, the best solution may not be the one chosen.
    I think that the downward angle of shots that miss the shooter have less chance for lethality hitting those behind him, than up angle shots toward the shooter that hit an innocent passing in between. Just my own feeling.
    Ten seconds, in a situation like this is a lifetime. While there are no guarantees, I would hope that I would be in action considerably sooner than ten seconds.

  3. #78
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Yep, in a situation specific like this...I would not give a care about where I shot the person including in the back.
    As he is not fleeing nor attempting to stop being a threat I would shoot the person in back, butt or testicles if that's the only shot I have available.

    As to defending others, Biker had not specifically stated others and himself...Only singularly another (his wife) and to that is what and why I keyed up. If he had said to defend his wife _and_ himself I'd then have not had a second thought to make a remark.

    - Janq
    Howdy Mr. Janq.

    You are correct in that I did specify my wife, and not myself. Truth be told, in this situation, I'm dead but I'm mean enough to take the (insert profanity of choice here) with me. That's it, plain and simple.

    While I want to continue living and sharing my life, I recognize that in situations like this that I very well may not. I do not take foolish chances, however there comes a time when one has to be prepared to die so that others may live. Who I die for is my choice, how I die may not be my choice. I consider this to be a low probability of survival situation, as I will draw the badguy's focus to me, and me alone. That right there reduces my odds.

    My articulation may be different than your's, but we will both have to articulate our reasons why.

    Biker

  4. #79
    Member Array Bigkahuna's Avatar
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    What? No bodyguards anywhere?? No Secret Service?? Why do we always have to do all the shooting???

  5. #80
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    That's what all that practice is for.

  6. #81
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    This is probably discussed in this thread but I'm not sure how my state handles this re: carry. If there is an active bar in the room....can I carry? It's not like the loung in a restaurant, which is off-limits in this state (but the restaurant itself is ok). I dont think I've seen this covered in the laws (that I understood anyway).

    Meh, it doesnt matter...I dont own a dress carry purse (yet)
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  7. #82
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Didnt sound like he had a high cap mag, at least initially. Sounded like he reloaded pretty soon, unless he dumped 3-4 bullets in each guy.

    Hopefully there will be another reload...or out...fast. A trained cc'er should be able to be in position to shoot by then (if they have a clear backstop).
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  8. #83
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    This is probably discussed in this thread but I'm not sure how my state handles this re: carry. If there is an active bar in the room....can I carry? It's not like the loung in a restaurant, which is off-limits in this state (but the restaurant itself is ok). I dont think I've seen this covered in the laws (that I understood anyway).

    Meh, it doesnt matter...I dont own a dress carry purse (yet)
    That could be a tricky question. I believe that it would revolve around two points. First, was it a no host bar where you had to pay for drinks or were the drinks provided as part of the function. Second was it a closed function, not open to the public. Difficult to say.

  9. #84
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKinNY View Post
    All wrong answers. This is what you do!!! First shot is you take out the lights. (Now the BG cannot see what he is shooting at) At the same time you slip out of your pocket your night vision goggles and place them on your head. While running towards the target with a slide taking out BG at the knees causing him to drop his weapon and as he is falling backwards I would be firing 1 COM shot. Ended the deadly rampage.
    Saving the Mayors' and Governors' life. Ticker tape parade. Getting a key to the city. Banging the homecoming queen.

    That's just me.
    *giggle*

    And I saw my very first Concealed Carry badge today at a gun show.

    I laughed out loud and got a scowl for my trouble. (They had it pinned into a wallet and everything)
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  10. #85
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    Well we may as well consider the ramifications of a bystander running thru your field of fire and being hit by you as you engage the shooter. With a genearl panic and you and the shooter trading fire, some people will just see you and not the first shooter and vice versa. There will be chaos and someone could very well run in front of you while you are shooting.

    I for one know that I become very task oriented and develop tunnel vision when I am engaged in a high stress situation, and deal with the threat curreently to my front. I might not see someone running thru my field of fire and not even realize that I shot them until forensics examines the bullets
    I've thought this would be a big consideration, but didnt see it discussed much. It would be a major concern for me and hard to discount as a distraction.

    And for me, I'd most likely be moving immediately and looking for position and timing to fire. It wont be a table top...I can be completely honest and say I doubt I'd be able to expose myself that way unless my family was within the shooter's sights.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  11. #86
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    I've thought this would be a big consideration, but didnt see it discussed much. It would be a major concern for me and hard to discount as a distraction.

    And for me, I'd most likely be moving immediately and looking for position and timing to fire. It wont be a table top...I can be completely honest and say I doubt I'd be able to expose myself that way unless my family was within the shooter's sights.
    again dont try to picture a room with people running aimlessly in circles back and forth in front of you...the direction people move in will generally be away from the shooter and they will be moving fast...anyone moving between you and the shooter for any amount of time is only another target for the shooter...

    once your family is in his sights its too late...the scenario requires action now to prevent him from getting to you or your family....

  12. #87
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Biker,

    Though we come from completely different backgrounds per our many discussions, you and I are to my view cut from the same bolt of cloth.

    I'd taken your post as an opportunity to make an item of thinking, if not a teachable moment toward the bigger picture (not specific to this type of incident) as related to defense of self which may include others around us.

    My point and intent though seems to have been mis-read and/or misunderstood so with that I won't continue it.
    No harm nor disparagement was intended.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  13. #88
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quite a few have made some comment about the 10 seconds being a lifetime... And I did say he actually did a tactical reload, so we assume he is an experienced shooter. Maybe, maybe not... He takes aim at one of the big shots and fires. takes aim at another big shot and fires... moves to the other side of the dais and aims and shoots one of them... then turns and aims and shoots at attendees.. Then starts walking towards you... I don't think 10 seconds is too long...

    Then, that gives us that time (as asked in my poll) within which to respond as, or before, he is coming our way. It's almost like we have 10 seconds from the first shot (minus our reaction time to it), to set up our own... perhaps we can get it off and end the situation sooner, that's good. Either way, you have a "lot of time" to set up your shot... pulling table cloths, getting up on chairs, advancing towards him, getting behind a tipped table, whatever your tactical choice... just as he is "coming towards you." So, in most all cases, I would hope that time frame guarantees success for our defensive action.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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