"active shooter" response scenario

This is a discussion on "active shooter" response scenario within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You are at a banquet/awards ceremony type affair with your SO. Typical rubber chicken/leather steak dinner with an open bar (for 5 minutes)... awards ceremony ...

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Thread: "active shooter" response scenario

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    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    "active shooter" response scenario

    You are at a banquet/awards ceremony type affair with your SO. Typical rubber chicken/leather steak dinner with an open bar (for 5 minutes)... awards ceremony to follow dinner. Seats are assigned, 8 chairs to a table, all tables are full, you have no choice where you are seated.

    You are carrying... Your SO is not. You know some of the folks in the hall and know they also have carry permits, but they are at far tables, scattered about the room, and you don't know if they are currently carrying.

    About halfway through dinner, a nicely dressed man enters the room, he's smiling, appears "normal", and you've seen him around so your SA isn't piqued. As he's walking through the room to the dais, he even stops at a table, putting his hand on the shoulder of a guy there and says a few words, both are smiling.

    He continues towards the dais where about 5 people are seated on either side of the podium... The "bigshots" and the honorees. As he arrives at the dais, pulls a handgun and shoots two of the "bigshots" and one of the honorees. He actually does a "tactical reload" and turns to face the audience...

    People are scrambling but he picks off a couple, seemingly at random. He doesn't really seem to be looking for particular people... He's not looking at you directly... but is headed your way... About 10 seconds have elapsed from the time of the first shot...

    What is your response?


    Call 911 and be a good witness, has already been done... and you cannot change the scenario.
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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Going with the premise that all conditions to safely discharge my firearm in a crowded public place are met, this is a shoot situation to allow wife to get her butt to safety. I would probably attempt to close distance in this case to ensure that my bullets strike where I intend them to, and also be in hopes that it drives the attacker back into a defensive posture.

    Biker

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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Going with the premise that all conditions to safely discharge my firearm in a crowded public place are met, this is a shoot situation to allow wife to get her butt to safety. I would probably attempt to close distance in this case to ensure that my bullets strike where I intend them to, and also be in hopes that it drives the attacker back into a defensive posture.

    Biker
    What Biker said
    Sometimes I wonder who the old man in the mirror is....

    Lord, Grant me a good sword and no need to use it.

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    Get wife to floor while drawing weapon, stand up or get down whichever is better, disengage safety, aim for the bridge of the nose and squeeze the trigger. Repeat as needed.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    Ex Member Array EB31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Get wife to floor while drawing weapon, stand up or get down whichever is better, disengage safety, aim for the bridge of the nose and squeeze the trigger. Repeat as needed.
    What Tacman said

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    Senior Member Array AlexHassin's Avatar
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    If I have a shot take it, have SO flee and me be quickly behind. I plan to shoot more to buy time then actually to stop the treat. Maybe I would hit him, probably not, but hopefully I will atlest slow him down/ make him seek cover. With this extra time I get the hell out of doge.

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    Looks to me like he's gonna kill until killed. Shoot him and be done with it.
    Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    I have to add that I will shoot and move, away from my wife but the direction will be dictated by tables, panicked individuals etc....

    But I am sure that once I engage him his sole focus will be on me and I will shoot him until he is no longer a threat
    Sometimes I wonder who the old man in the mirror is....

    Lord, Grant me a good sword and no need to use it.

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    This depends on what I'm carrying and how far he is away from me and how many people are around and where the exits are.

    At my husband's Christmas banquet last year we were sat literally infront of the exit. Why waste time when in two steps we can be out of the door to safety and not to holding up 30 other people who might also be able to escape by us not dwaddling at the door.

    You already said I can't change the scenario which is hard because in this kind of situation it would be more likely that my husband would be carrying as well and we have practiced our team tactics to protect each other and evacuate. But seeing as how you have laid down strict rules and I will abide by them.

    JD can take care of himself. I'm not going to give him any directions or advice. If he wants to stay with me he can stay. If he wants to go he'll go. He's got a cool head and knows what he's doing and it's comforting to know I won't have to look after him. I can do whatever I need to.

    If I have one of the .380s and the BG's more than seven yards away.. no way. No shot.. Stay concealed, seek cover and escape. I know my guns and myself well enough to know that that kind of distance in a crowded place isn't going to be good for shooting with those guns. The accuracy just isn't there.

    If I have my .45 and he's up to fifteen yards away I could confidently make the shot. Hide behind a table, use it for cover and to steady my aim... make sure I'm leading the target as much as possible and pray I save some lives.

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    Distinguished Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    Well, I've been to a bunch of these kinds of events, and I've never had to deal with anything like this. But first of all, I and my companions would definitely get down low. I'd draw and aim upward from a crouching position, so that any stray rounds - if any - would have a minimal chance of hitting bystanders. Obviously, distance to shooter would be a factor, as would the presence of people running around back and forth.

    Might want to knock over a table and use it as cover.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

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    For everyone who said "I would use a table as cover" 99% of tables are not cover, but concealment.

    Most plastic and wooden banquet tables would be turned into swiss cheese by .32 acps

    If the bg hid behind the table I would quickly shoot it full of holes while advancing on it (well actually it depends on the capacity of my pistol and how many rounds I had fired) to suppress the BG until I can get a clear shot
    Sometimes I wonder who the old man in the mirror is....

    Lord, Grant me a good sword and no need to use it.

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    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    10 seconds is a long time for all of this up till this point...i expect anybody carrying a firearm is drawn at this point if they are still in the room and the target is identified...along with possible accomplices...if thats the case....

    wife on the floor and if there is a clear shooting lane without a running panic i will charge the shooter and cover him in a wall of bullets as i close space....if space allows...i dont see a shot from cover in a crowded room that isnt just going to draw fire back in my direction and that of my wifes....my movement toward him is unexpected and i am looking for shock and awe along with multiple hits to take him down...there is a good chance i am going to take hits whether i drop or rise...rising and charging gives me a clear picture and the highest lane available...he is probably not going to be standing still so a carefully placed head shot isnt as easy as many think it will be...along with the possibility of missing the small target of a head under tremendous pressure i dont consider it an option unless i am in the bell tower with a scoped rifle....i want to draw fire away from my wife while giving him little opportunity to return fire if at all...he will eat 15 rounds in a few short seconds and hopefully be on the ground before i seat the second mag....

    i dont recognize any real cover in a dining room full of people...depending on his weapon a table may or may not stop a shot but it is going to take time to get a table up and in a cover position...with panic this is not an easy task and time is essential...this guy could be laying down some serious hurt without actually having to aim with the number of people in the room...he need to be dropped now....

    or...i could take my time...go to sights and hope i can place a single shot in his brain while he turns toward me while firing his weapon...i dont give myself that much credit....

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    The others have good responses to the scenario, nothing I can add to... but you impress the heck outta me by being the only one I've ever seen here spell "piqued" correctly!!!

    Signed,

    the Spelling and Grammar Nazi
    Smitty
    NRA Endowment Member

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    Distinguished Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    99% of tables are not cover, but concealment
    In the context of this discussion, 100% of that remark was pedantic and unnecessary. Laughable, actually.

    "Honey - he's got a gun - take concealment!"

    Ha ha ha. In fact, we experts in the self-defense community don't use the term "concealment" anymore, because it's too imprecise. Be advised that the preferred term today for that is now DOOFUS (direct optic-obscuring fencing utility setup). This is opposed to something that can actually stop bullets, which is now known as: BOGUS (ballistic occlusion gunfire umbrella system).

    Thus, our modern urban tactical operator should shout out: "Honey - take DOOFUS and seek BOGUS ASAP!"
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

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    I'm going to more or less agree with the majority of posters here. One thing I might do, however, is to toss a chair at him if no one is in the direct line. Natural human instinct dictates that he will try to protect himself whilst I draw, move towards him, but at an oblique angle, and begin to fire as the situation presents itself.

    Of course this is all after I tell my SO to get down and move away from him at a right angle.
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