Changing locks on foreclosed occupied houses. - Page 4

Changing locks on foreclosed occupied houses.

This is a discussion on Changing locks on foreclosed occupied houses. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 9MMare If you are living in a foreclosed home (previously yours or someone else's) you are already breaking the law. . Not ...

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Thread: Changing locks on foreclosed occupied houses.

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    If you are living in a foreclosed home (previously yours or someone else's) you are already breaking the law.
    .
    Not if you are a tenant...in most states anyways
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  2. #47
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    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/banks...ry?id=11847377

    " in a growing number of cases, these real estate repo men are showing up before the foreclosure process is done – and sometimes, before a home is even in foreclosure."

    "What we have right now is lawlessness across the country. Banks and institutions are circumventing our courts. They're going behind our judges' backs and they are throwing homeowners out on the street out completely improperly," Weidner said. (Lawyer for woman whose home was invaded by a repo guy.)

    Apparently the home repo-biz is largely unregulated. Banks and others are running youtube ads to get people to go into the home-repo business by promising 500 dollar payments per job. With large incentives and few regulations, the inexperienced and the not-so-bright run amok.

    Meanwhile, the banks themselves can't produce the notes when they go to court because they have been misplaced through multiple reselling of the original note over a number of years. (Actually a concern for homeowners too as it could raise issues when a home is paid off and a release of lien is issued.)

    I've no sympathy for the banks. Not because I have sympathy for the folks who don't pay their notes, but because they are such large organizations they have now rather carelessly made their own bed--and I'm willing to let them sleep in it.

    On a side note, related to bank inefficiency, many years ago one of my credit card issuers sent me a routine note asking that I accept a new agreement. I ignored it. When it came time for my card to be renewed they didn't send me a new one. So, I called customer service and said, "gee, my new card should have come by now." "OK, we'll get one in the mail right away."

    Two years went by, same thing happened. Two more years went by. Same thing happened.
    Two more years went by and this time the somehow the missing agreement came up. I told them I would accept the new terms if they would send me the old agreement. They said sure. Months went by. Eventually I got a letter that said they couldn't find the original agreement and "we do apologize for any inconvenience."

    Meanwhile I still have the card, they still have no agreement signed. They are lucky I pay it all off every month because they could never produce a signed agreement for an arbitrator or a court.

    In short, these large companies are so disorganized and poorly managed, they deserve a little pay-back for the grief their own inefficiencies routinely cause their customers.

  3. #48
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    News to me...and to many of my clients.

    The fact that ownership of the dwelling has changed does not automatically terminate the person's right to occupy the dwelling in all states.

    Also, if the home is a rental, the tenant may not have notice of the foreclosure, as they are not a party at interest in the foreclosure case.

    The bank may wish to take possession; however, they need to remove the tenant by way of eviction through court - not self help.

    If someone simply breaks in, even at the behest of the owner, they expose themselves to criminal, civil and "tenant" sanctions.

    The eviction/repo game isn't for the dumb.
    I wasnt referring to renters, so please excuse that.

    However if you are living in a foreclosed home (that you used to own) that has been processed and they are sending repo or other people....you are breaking the law. (If it's still being disputed, then I dont think it has been 'foreclosed on). And I dont believe squatters' rights apply (altho I dont know all the laws).
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  4. #49
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/banks...ry?id=11847377

    " in a growing number of cases, these real estate repo men are showing up before the foreclosure process is done – and sometimes, before a home is even in foreclosure."

    .
    This ^^^ is a different story.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    Suppose you are living in a foreclosed home at the time someone breaks in. Would you shoot?

    Of course, squatting isn't legally supported in many places. IMO, certainly when it's costing someone something, it's wrong.

    However, I also believe there is a reasonable limit to the need for hands-on physicality when forcing someone to exit a place, whether that place is a town's park bench at 3am or the local "squatter's row." Someone's on that bench at 3am and you don't want them to be? On that street legally protesting? Snoozing behind that dumpster, or squatting in that old, unused, unoccupied building? Those situations simply don't give anyone the right to kick the snot out of the person found there. Ejected, sure. Beaten, let alone, so violated as to be hard to distinguish from deadly violence? Not a chance.

    And so, I believe that a person has every right to stop unjustifiable and unwarranted physical violence against himself and others, using that degree of force necessary to stop the violence (as the law supports in most states).

    Stopping zealots in the heat of zealotry, though, is dangerous business. Very often, given the biases and bigotry involved in such things, any damage to the "offenders" is often glossed over if the ejection is achieved relatively pain-free.

    That all being said, if I were to find myself squatting in an unused and unoccupied (though owned) building or place in which people came in to eject me and those people gave every impression of being violent criminals bent on harsh-to-deadly physical violence, I think it's fair to say that I would do all I could to stop that violence from happening, using the degree of force necessary, no matter the cost to the attacker(s), even if it killed him (them). Damn right I would. Why? Because, IMO, nobody has the right to inflict unjustifiable physical violence upon another, certainly not to the degree of being a deadly threat, merely because one feels perturbed about a squatter being there. Someone's at a park bench at 3am, so that person deserves deadly violence to be ejected? I don't think so. Sitting in an unoccupied/unused building isn't much different. In most places, I'd bet the statutes would support such defense in such a scenario.
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  6. #51
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post

    However if you are living in a foreclosed home (that you used to own) that has been processed and they are sending repo or other people....you are breaking the law. (If it's still being disputed, then I dont think it has been 'foreclosed on). And I dont believe squatters' rights apply (altho I dont know all the laws).
    And you are still making a blanket statement unsupported by facts.

    In some states the issue of ownership is seperate and distinct from the issue of your removal from the property.

    You can loose the home in forclosure, and title may vest in the bank as a matter of law today. The bank may...or may not be able to send people tomorow to remove you by force lawfully or change the locks without filing an eviction action in court first.

    Circumventing an eviction action mean that the actions of the property owner - the bank - are unlawful, and anyone involved in such actions would be liable to the occupant (owner or not...) for civil and criminal penalties.

    Not to mention, getting shot for being a home invader under the right situation.

    This is the law in some states. Not in others.

  7. #52
    Member Array radman's Avatar
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    So with times being what they are, I make extra money by doing lock changes and clean-outs on repo homes. I have a Realtor who handles these for the banks. Apparently her specialty. Most of these have been sold at auction several times over and been vacant for quite some time. Occasionally I get one that's "suppose to be" vacant. If its obviously occupied I wont even stop. That's her job as a representative of the bank to deal with that. If its not obvious that its vacant I will knock on the door and windows, check the power meter and water, etc. If I cant determine for sure that its vacant I will leave a note saying the bank owns it & to call her and they will do a "cash for keys". Basically pay the people to move out so they don't trash the place.
    I do carry when I do these because
    1: they are not always in the best part of town, &
    2: people tend to get a little PO'ed when they get thrown out of their house, no matter what the reason & I'm not going to be the one they happen to take it out on.

    No I don't break in to someones house if it is obviously occupied.
    Funny thing. The 1 time I actually did "break into" someones house I met the realtor at the property on her request. She was there first and found the condo. One of those apartment complexes that went condo. Anyway, she told me which one it was and I went to work. Honestly I'm fairly new at this so I'm not real good at opening these. My fallback is to just drill it out which is fine because we just replace the lock anyway. Takes about 30 seconds. Sometimes I can bump them but this was a good lock. So I'm drilling this lock & she says "Well I hope this is the right place because I couldn't actually find the right number!".
    WHAT???? Well it wasn't the right place. She says, OH NO WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO?
    I say, what are YOU going to do? YOU told me to do this. You said it was the right place.
    We put a new lock, a lock box & a note saying to call her. Turned out the guy did the same thing and thought his buddies were playing a joke on him.

    I know what I would do if I was sitting in my house and someone started drilling out my door lock. When it opened he would be met with a shotgun in the face and he better have a good explanation. I try to be careful but I just hope if it happens & I'm on the outside of the door they ask questions first!
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by radman View Post
    I know what I would do if I was sitting in my house and someone started drilling out my door lock. When it opened he would be met with a shotgun in the face and he better have a good explanation. I try to be careful
    Find a safer way to make your living. You've already almost been burned badly going to the wrong house. "She told me," isn't going to be much of a legal defense when you get arrested.

    As for what might happen if you go into the wrong place, two words---" Castle Doctrine. " One more word-- TEXAS.
    One phrase-- DEAD MEAT.

    And seriously, how do you know that your Realtor lady friend knows what the heck she is doing? That the folks she works for know what they are doing?

    At least with auto repo you can check the titles at the courthouse on your own. Actually, with true foreclosures, you can do that too, but instead you are taking someone else's word that it is OK to break in. Not smart.

  9. #54
    Member Array radman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Find a safer way to make your living. You've already almost been burned badly going to the wrong house. "She told me," isn't going to be much of a legal defense when you get arrested.

    As for what might happen if you go into the wrong place, two words---" Castle Doctrine. " One more word-- TEXAS.
    One phrase-- DEAD MEAT.

    And seriously, how do you know that your Realtor lady friend knows what the heck she is doing? That the folks she works for know what they are doing?
    Well like I said the majority of the houses have been sold over & over at auction, 1 bank after another & they have been empty for months. I dont even have to break in because all the HUD homes seem to use the same key codes.
    She works for a major realty company but yea, she is kinda dingy so I learned a big lesson with that one. If it even remotely looks occupied I back off and let her deal with it.
    As it is I kind of feel like Im working for the devil anyway so I certainly dont want to be the one doing the real dirty work. I just clean up the mess afterward.
    Last edited by MattInFla; October 14th, 2010 at 07:52 AM. Reason: Fixed quote tag
    Freedom.... The Price Keeps Going Up, and the Quality Keeps Going Down.

  10. #55
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    And you are still making a blanket statement unsupported by facts.

    In some states the issue of ownership is seperate and distinct from the issue of your removal from the property.

    You can loose the home in forclosure, and title may vest in the bank as a matter of law today. The bank may...or may not be able to send people tomorow to remove you by force lawfully or change the locks without filing an eviction action in court first.

    Circumventing an eviction action mean that the actions of the property owner - the bank - are unlawful, and anyone involved in such actions would be liable to the occupant (owner or not...) for civil and criminal penalties.

    Not to mention, getting shot for being a home invader under the right situation.

    This is the law in some states. Not in others.
    You'll have to excuse my ignorance. The examples you've used all sound like the foreclosure proceedings have been processed (however is necessary in that state.) I guess I misspoke when I wrote. Should I have said 'legally processed in the states in which they reside?" I bet there's proper terminology that lawyers know. Please forgive the general misstatements. Crazy I know!
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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