Changing locks on foreclosed occupied houses.

This is a discussion on Changing locks on foreclosed occupied houses. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Read the article about contractors hired by banks in Florida who break into foreclosed but occupied homes and change the locks. http://www.heraldtribune.com/article...tc=pgall&tc=ar Suppose you are ...

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Thread: Changing locks on foreclosed occupied houses.

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    Changing locks on foreclosed occupied houses.

    Read the article about contractors hired by banks in Florida who break into foreclosed but occupied homes and change the locks.

    http://www.heraldtribune.com/article...tc=pgall&tc=ar

    Suppose you are living in a foreclosed home at the time someone breaks in. Would you shoot?
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    Member Array mikecu's Avatar
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    How did you end up living in the foreclosed home?

    One of the last steps of the foreclosure process is the clerk of the court issuing a "Writ of Possession".
    This is done with the sheriff posting a 24 hour notice and then meeting the bank rep at the property.
    Last edited by mikecu; October 6th, 2010 at 12:11 AM. Reason: more stuff

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    There are any number of "field services companies" that provide property inspection and maintenance services to mortgage holders, including securing properties from unauthorized entry or occupancy. Not all of these companies are real good at screening applicants or checking backgrounds, many relying solely upon the low bidder willing to do the work in the area required. The better field services companies require full background investigations, bonding, and insurance coverage.

    There is a big gray area in these cases for law enforcement officers investigating complaints or unauthorized entry and/or lock-changing, etc. How many law enforcement agencies can commit the resourses to study the entire court history of a foreclosure proceeding, identify mortgage holders, verify contracts for property inspection and preservation services, check out every principal and/or employee involved, etc, etc, etc? I'm a retired cop so I understand that there are only so many hours in a day, and other demands for services may take precedence over such complaints. The opportunity to close the complaint out as a "civil matter" can be tempting.

    There are also quite a few unscrupulous "landlords" who will ride the foreclosure process to the very end, sometimes for a year or two, collecting rent from tenants while not paying mortgage payments. Pure profit for the landlord, knowing that he cannot possibly sell the property in today's market for what is owed on the mortgage. No doubt, there are also real estate brokers and property managers quite willing to assist in this sort of scam, given the fact that their earnings have declined sharply during the recent economic downturn.

    Lots of opportunities for abuse, no question about that. Provide an opportunity and you can be sure that a few people will take advantage of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikecu View Post
    How did you end up living in the foreclosed home?

    One of the last steps of the foreclosure process is the clerk of the court issuing a "Writ of Possession".
    This is done with the sheriff posting a 24 hour notice and then meeting the bank rep at the property.
    This is a scenario.
    Both of my houses are completely paid for as are my cars and other possessions. Many folks in Florida are not so lucky and were duped into buying a house they could not afford in the first place.

    The question is: If you are living in the house and a stranger breaks in, how do you handle it? Would you Call 911, push your panic button, chase them away with a broom, shoot and then call 911, or what?
    Last edited by SIGP250; October 6th, 2010 at 12:48 AM. Reason: Add
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    This is a scenario.
    Both of my houses are completely paid for as are my cars and other possessions. Many folks in Florida are not so lucky and were duped into buying a house they could not afford in the first place.

    The question is: If you are living in the house and a stranger breaks in, how do you handle it? Would you Call 911, push your panic button, chase them away with a broom, shoot and then call 911, or what?
    I think a home "owner" is going to know darn well whether or not his house is paid for, his mortgage payments are up to date, and whether or not a foreclosure proceeding is in process. How one would react to a stranger at the door would depend on your knowledge of your own situation. There are fools who resist being evicted even when they know full well they have lost legal custody to the property. If they shoot someone trying to regain the property they should pay the price.

    Tenants OTOH get put in an untenable position by shady landlords who don't let the tenant know that the bank has repossessed and continues to collect rent. These folks, the landlord, are fraudsters and belong in jail, but that doesn't help the renter know what to do when the agent arrives to change the locks.

    Last year there was a sheriff who made the national news because he refused to evict renters of foreclosed property until he had proof that the renter had been correctly notified.

    This is one of those scenarios as the phony warrant service, where the resident can be put into quite a situation in which they are between a rock and a hard place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    This is a scenario.
    Both of my houses are completely paid for as are my cars and other possessions. Many folks in Florida are not so lucky and were duped into buying a house they could not afford in the first place.

    The question is: If you are living in the house and a stranger breaks in, how do you handle it? Would you Call 911, push your panic button, chase them away with a broom, shoot and then call 911, or what?
    An interesting question. Florida's Castle Doctrine allow the use of deadly force to repel an intruder who unlawfully and forcibly enters an dwelling. The key question here would be whether the contractors are covered under the exception:

    776.013Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.ó
    (1)A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
    (a)The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that personís will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
    (b)The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
    (2)The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:
    (a)The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or...
    So would these contractors fall under the "owner, lessee or titleholder" exception? An interesting question.

    OTOH, the intruder is armed with a screwdriver, so the presumption contained in 776.013 might not be necessary to cover the resident if they deploy deadly force against this unknown, armed intruder.

    Personally, I'd be ordering the intruder to leave at gunpoint. Whether or not he does will determine what kind of call gets made to 911 - send the police for a report, or the police and an ambulance for one shot.

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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    Suppose you are living in a foreclosed home at the time someone breaks in. Would you shoot?
    I would laugh, call the police, get a report and find an attorney.

    Criminal Lockouts by banks = large settlement checks.

    Shoot? Hell to the no...

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    Originally Posted by SIGP250
    This is a scenario.
    Both of my houses are completely paid for as are my cars and other possessions. Many folks in Florida are not so lucky and were duped into buying a house they could not afford in the first place.

    The question is: If you are living in the house and a stranger breaks in, how do you handle it? Would you Call 911, push your panic button, chase them away with a broom, shoot and then call 911, or what?
    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    An interesting question. Florida's Castle Doctrine allow the use of deadly force to repel an intruder who unlawfully and forcibly enters an dwelling. The key question here would be whether the contractors are covered under the exception:

    776.013Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—
    (1)A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:
    (a)The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and
    (b)The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.
    (2)The presumption set forth in subsection (1) does not apply if:
    (a)The person against whom the defensive force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle, such as an owner, lessee, or titleholder, and there is not an injunction for protection from domestic violence or a written pretrial supervision order of no contact against that person; or...
    The question is: If you are living in the house and a stranger breaks in, how do you handle it? Would you Call 911, push your panic button, chase them away with a broom, shoot and then call 911, or what?

    So would these contractors fall under the "owner, lessee or titleholder" exception? An interesting question.

    OTOH, the intruder is armed with a screwdriver, so the presumption contained in 776.013 might not be necessary to cover the resident if they deploy deadly force against this unknown, armed intruder.

    Personally, I'd be ordering the intruder to leave at gunpoint. Whether or not he does will determine what kind of call gets made to 911 - send the police for a report, or the police and an ambulance for one shot.

    Matt
    It is an interesting question. It seems like the contractor is putting himself at risk. Even a repo man is supposed to alert the sheriff I think.
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    I would laugh, call the police, get a report and find an attorney.

    Criminal Lockouts by banks = large settlement checks.

    Shoot? Hell to the no...
    I'm thinking some of these contractors may not leave even if asked politely. Some don't get paid unless they finish the job. Same as the guys that tow cars from private parking lots.
    I could see shooting out the patio window to get his full attention while calling the cops.
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I think a home "owner" is going to know darn well whether or not his house is paid for, his mortgage payments are up to date, and whether or not a foreclosure proceeding is in process. How one would react to a stranger at the door would depend on your knowledge of your own situation. There are fools who resist being evicted even when they know full well they have lost legal custody to the property. If they shoot someone trying to regain the property they should pay the price.
    Read post #2. This has nothing to do with me personally. I was only answering post #2 and adding clarification.

    The Owners in question are being foreclosed on by a bank. Obviously their home is not paid for.
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    I'm thinking some of these contractors may not leave even if asked politely. Some don't get paid unless they finish the job. Same as the guys that tow cars from private parking lots.
    I could see shooting out the patio window to get his full attention while calling the cops.
    Warning shots are a bad idea, as is firing through your window, to an unknown backstop. Guns are for deadly force, not for getting someone's attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGP250 View Post
    Read post #2. This has nothing to do with me personally. I was only answering post #2 and adding clarification.

    The Owners in question are being foreclosed on by a bank. Obviously their home is not paid for.
    I didn't think it was you. Sorry if you got that impression. My point is, renters being an exception, and errors/flat out mistakes being another exception, a "homeowner" knows if he is going through a foreclosure process. He knows what deadlines the bank and the court have given him for leaving.

    If the situation is the one MitchellCT mentioned, an attempted criminal lockout by the bank, then his advice makes sense.

    The thing is, with regard to an improper lockout, maybe wrong address, maybe attempt to take over a home that was long ago paid for in full, those present really have no choice but to assume the person attempting to gain control is a criminal and act appropriately, which could include use of lethal force if the criminal entrant won't
    'git."

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    Being a repo man is a risky job. Lots of people don't want to let go of their stuff. Some good stories out there of adventures repossessing things like yachts and airplanes when the former owner doesn't want that to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul34 View Post
    Warning shots are a bad idea, as is firing through your window, to an unknown backstop. Guns are for deadly force, not for getting someone's attention.
    You're right, probably better just to let them break in.
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
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    If I understand, if the property is foreclosed,the bank owns it. Therefore NO occupant has ANY rights to it as long as its foreclosed, Correct?

    (So, by theory, if someone is unlawfully occupying a residence, they have no right to defend it, right?)
    Last edited by Ghettokracker71; October 6th, 2010 at 03:24 PM. Reason: Retyped it to make more sense.

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