Envisioned a Scenario this morning

This is a discussion on Envisioned a Scenario this morning within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by deafdave3 Doesn't matter if its my mom, my girlfriend, my wife, my kids, my ex, whatever... I cannot stand outside and watch ...

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Thread: Envisioned a Scenario this morning

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deafdave3 View Post
    Doesn't matter if its my mom, my girlfriend, my wife, my kids, my ex, whatever... I cannot stand outside and watch it happen. I would go inside with my CCW, calmly, and try to stop the threats - one way or another.
    IIRC, you don't carry an extra mag for that PP. With all respect, don't you think that seven or eight rounds of .32 against multiple perps is a little thin.

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    IIRC, you don't carry an extra mag for that PP. With all respect, don't you think that seven or eight rounds of .32 against multiple perps is a little thin.
    Oh, I'd rather take action and die, than to sit outside and watch a member of my family be killed.
    A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    IIRC, you don't carry an extra mag for that PP. With all respect, don't you think that seven or eight rounds of .32 against multiple perps is a little thin.
    I'll be the first to admit: I have no LE training. I am not good at hostage negotiations. I'm just your average Joe, with a CHL, a small gun, and a black belt in martial arts. In this scenario, none of that will help me. I'm sure I will fail miserably. But I have seen some things, and imagined others, that makes me realize that seeing a family member die in a shootout if I don't do anything is not something I want to remember.
    A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    IF that were a given I would agree with you, in this case I do not believe it is.

    While it may be difficult, one must consider the possible harm of their intervention as well as the good.

  6. #20
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    Have to agree with BikerRN. Get on the phone, call 911 and be a good witness. Be prepared to react if the situation changes.

    If someone fires a shot, you now have the possibility of it going from an armed robbery to a full blown hostage situation.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

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  7. #21
    Member Array ncsteveh's Avatar
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    I would also agree with biker, be a good witness and make the call, now if things were going south inside and they were to start bringing people into the back then it is time for a new drive thru, shooting through the glass won't work, take a good look at the glass next time you visit a D&D, it's 2 1/4" pieces of glass with a laminate between it, so in effect you would be shooting thru over 1/2" of glass so good luck with penetration even with a rifle. Once you bust thru though be ready to come out shooting because you just entered the hornets nest. Oh yeah, your lawyer reminded me to have you call him as soon as you are finished because you are going to need him.
    Last edited by ncsteveh; October 10th, 2010 at 05:16 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    I guess it depends on how close I am to the BGs and who is in the immediate vicinity.

    If we are willing to take the risk that the armed BGs won't shoot anyone here, why not anywhere else? I mean, maybe the guy robbing me on the street or kicking down my door won't actually shoot me and will just scare me. I am not sure I agree with that logic.

    What if they start shooting hostages? My question would be - what if I (or the person(s) I am with) is the first one shot? BGs have no sense of honor; otherwise they wouldn't be doing this in the first place.

    To be honest, not sure what I'd do. I agree that firing opens the possibility the BGs may return fire, resulting in more causalities, but then, I don't know if I could just stand by while someone directly threatened my life. They didn't bring those guns for show and tell, after all.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Biker hit it, IMO. I'd add that I would unholster and be ready to take cover if the BG came out and saw me looking at them (masked or not). If I had a long gun in the car I'd probably go turkey shooting, I'm not an expert to 500 yards on iron sights, but I did qualify as sharpshooter at 350 yards in Basic.

    It would be hard to convince the BG to flip up like the targets in Basic did, but I may be able to pull it off.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Paul34,

    I agree that were one inside the location, that may well change things, but in the OP's scenario you are outside the location. This severely limits your ability to take speedy, effective action.

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    Remember, shooting through glass affects your bullets accuracy a lot.
    “What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pike

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by deafdave3 View Post
    Oh, I'd rather take action and die, than to sit outside and watch a member of my family be killed.
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but you are saying you will go in, start the fight, probably punch out before you have to watch a family member shot?
    "Just blame Sixto"

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but you are saying you will go in, start the fight, probably punch out before you have to watch a family member shot?
    No. I misunderstood the scenario. Once I realized this, I decided to leave it alone in hopes that no one would notice. I was wrong.
    A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.

  14. #28
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Paul34,

    I agree that were one inside the location, that may well change things, but in the OP's scenario you are outside the location. This severely limits your ability to take speedy, effective action.
    My mistake. My reading skills are terrible today.

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Dave,

    We all have a misread or misinterpretation on occasion. There is no shame, in fact, I think integrity in acknowledging it.

  16. #30
    Ex Member Array EB31's Avatar
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    Going with the posted scenerio....


    I would: call 911, observe all I can to make a good witness if need be, make sure I am in a fairly safe position/distance and make sure I am ready for whatever might happen next.

    If I need to move, do so as inconspicuously as possible as not to agitate the situation inside.

    Stay low profile. Never lose sight of what's going on inside (to the best of your own control).

    If the SHTF, or there is a point before that....that I am absolutely sure that this whole thing is about to end real bad for those inside....then I would act.

    I won't limit myself to any boundries of how I would act. You never know, heck...even I don't know....I might just drive my car through the store front.

    I would do WHATEVER I felt neccessary to try to save as many victims lives as possible, while limiting my direct exposure to death.

    My answer would be the same, if not dang close, with or without a family member inside.

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