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About LinkBacksNo disrespect intended, but here in Louisiana, malls and cafeterias are not gun free zones. Educational facilities are, though... for now.Originally Posted by Spec
This is a discussion on "15 Most Shocking Acts of Violence"... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Spec All the places listed are gun free zones... bad guys don't bring guns here... But In all seriousness I wouldn't be ...
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No disrespect intended, but here in Louisiana, malls and cafeterias are not gun free zones. Educational facilities are, though... for now.
A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.
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You're right and I agree. I just never imagined I may be using my CCW further than 15 feet until I saw this show.
A CCW is like a parachute; if you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.
Being able to engage a threat at greater distances than "normal" SD situations is something we should all practice.
Yes getting away from the threat is an option but what is you can't due to the building or surroundings. I to agree that I could not stand by and do nothing or flee the scene. I do carry a full size weapon and practice at longer distances just to see what my capabilities are. Dave go with what you got try the longer shots on the range and see how you do you might surprise yourself.
Whether it is a .32 or .44 a hit from either may be enough to eliminate or at least stop the aggression going on at that moment and that moment is all that matters.
"A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. (WETSU)
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I'm quickly effective with my Sig out to 25 yards, and I can aim and hit slowly at 50 yards, so I feel pretty comfortable in that regard. I've never tried shooting over 50 yards with a pistol. I know a few people who can do it. You bring up a good point. Most situations probably happen at close range, but not all of them do, and we strive for preparedness.
-Ryan
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
We were sighting in our antelope rifles for the year and I tried my .380 out at 200 yards it was very fun and entertaining out of my first four shots I only put one on the board the target was stapled to so my last two shots I rested it on my monopod and got both on paper. I don't ever forsee having to shoot it that far but it was fun to try. Thats what I love about having my own homemade range. We constantly shoot our bows at 100 yards and I'm wanting to move back to 200 just to try it. I would never engage a threat or animal with a bow or pistol at these ranges for the record but like to challenge my self just to see how close I can get.
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I practice at 25, 40 and even 50 yards with my XD and 1911, and can hit pretty good at those ranges. After shooting at 50 yards for awhile...even 25 yards seems like a chip shot.
USMC 1984-1992
To err is human.
To forgive is divine.
Neither of which is Marine Corps policy.
"It's all about shot placement."- David (Slayer of Goliath)
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My p64 is sighted in from the factory at 50 yards!
Well, it is.
By the time the 9X18 gets 50 yards, of course, it goes right in the cup... if someonse pulls the flag out first!
Seriously:
I do need to shoot at longer distances... however, I do not intend to be a marksman with my carry piece... my plan is to use my weapon for self defense... at 50 yards, even if someone is shooting.... I cannot ascertain by sight if it's a BG or a GG doing the shooting... protecting my self probably means bugging out.
Read:
The Gift of Fear by Gavin De Becker
In The Gravest Extreme by Massad Ayoob
The Harbinger by Jonathan Cahn
From every encounter or scenario; yours, someone else's, real, or not...
LEARN SOMETHING FROM IT
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I would suggest that you might not be able to ascertain if its a bg or gg shooting, then again you may. Fifty yards is not that great a distance optically speaking. An individual that is obviously shooting at people in any or all directions, who were running away from him, would seem a pretty good bet to be a bg.
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Never shot past 25 yards but my p95 doea hit very well at that distance
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The little guns, while easy to carry, have short sight radii, and usually have horrible or non-existent sights for such a shot.
It really is easy to carry a larger pistol that gives an advantage should a longer shot be taken.
A little while ago, we had a thread on a hostage shot at 25' (I think, IIRC). For an experiment, I tried that type of a shot with my LCP and my PT1911. Past 7 yards, I just couldn't guarantee an accurate cranio-ocular shot with the LCP. But the 1911 was on, every time. I believe that having actual sights help as much as the sight radius. Perhaps someone could chime in here, with a small pistol like a Sig P238 that has decent sights on it.
Granted, the scenario discussed may not involve a hostage, and a 25' COM hit with a small gun may be very doable... I'd take a COM shot at that distance with my 442, but not my LCP; go figureI don't think that I'd dare take a head shot, though.
Trust in God and keep your powder dry
"A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source
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I routinely include 25 yards in my practice. After reading this thread I'll also include distances out to 50 yards.
As to some of the situations presented - I can't see myself running away from a situation. First of all I feel compeled to help if able. I can't run fast anymore and I definitely cannot outrun a bullet. And if it were my kids, grandkids or wife I sure would want someone to help them. Do unto others ...
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There was a time I felt the same way, but then I had my daughter. I changed jobs in order to be home more and with her. I'm not responsible for other people, only my family.
Still, I typically carry the most reliable and subsequently accurate of my pistols which are my CZs and either the PCR, P-01 or Compact. They're all 9mm and more accurate than me. The load are the proven 124gr Gold Dot +P.
I typically practice at 7 yards. If a person is beyond that, I have time to more accurately set up the shot. I most definitely do not consider myself responsible for another person's safety/protection; just that of my family. I'll help if I can, but I'm no hero and will lose no sleep as long as my family is unharmed.
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I'd give you that... no problem... but at 50 yards away, with people running in any or all directions, I can't take a shot... I'm afraid this is a job for the meat eaters. Chances of me getting in range of a clear shot are remote (depending on crowd density). If I was moving towards the threat, my gun would be drawn... and so the crowd reaction (of those headed my direction) might be to run away from me as well (toward the BG?) and might put those people in greater jeopardy. (unless, of course, I was wearing a sash, which would undoubtedly part the crowd like the red sea, and move them to the sides to watch the great superhero CCW MAN take out the murderous thug in their midst!)
I will, however, someday... try the p64 at 50 yards against a milk jug full of water, at head height, just to see if I can hit it.
Read:
The Gift of Fear by Gavin De Becker
In The Gravest Extreme by Massad Ayoob
The Harbinger by Jonathan Cahn
From every encounter or scenario; yours, someone else's, real, or not...
LEARN SOMETHING FROM IT
I think that in most cases just shooting back is going to be enough. Your .32 is better than harsh language and most people (including myself) are not used to being under fire. Just shooting in the BGs general direction will buy you and others time to escape.
Many times in a mass shooting scenario the attacker ends his own life as soon as opposition is encountered.
"I don't know who invented Yoga and I don't know who invented pants. But I do know that I'd like to shake the hand of the man who put those two ideas together."
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Oakchas,
"(unless, of course, I was wearing a sash, which would undoubtedly part the crowd like the red sea, and move them to the sides to watch the great superhero CCW MAN take out the murderous thug in their midst!)"
Its hard to argue with a man with a sense of humor.
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