Never thought of this before. You go to draw and bystanders chastise you!

This is a discussion on Never thought of this before. You go to draw and bystanders chastise you! within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Was watching a Criminal Minds show tonight. Hostage situation on a commuter train. Guy in a suit slowly moves his hand into his briefcase. One ...

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Thread: Never thought of this before. You go to draw and bystanders chastise you!

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Never thought of this before. You go to draw and bystanders chastise you!

    Was watching a Criminal Minds show tonight. Hostage situation on a commuter train. Guy in a suit slowly moves his hand into his briefcase. One guy says, "What are you doing?!?" A lady chimes in, "Don't be stew-pid!" Guy pulls out a Bible. OK haha.

    But what if you or I am that guy and our neighbors react in a similar, or worse way? Either they give away your surprise or they fight you before you can act. I can't see that turning out well.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    In the most likely of circumstances, my shot will be away befor they can open their mouth.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    No, he gives away "his" suprise. My suprise is forthcoming. It his human nature to let your guard down as you get tired. In that situation, fatigue would eventually set in on the hostage taker and they will lose focus, and then I would act. Someone else drawing attention away from me would actually work in my favor.

  5. #4
    AzB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    In the most likely of circumstances, my shot will be away befor they can open their mouth.
    Beat me to it. That's exactly what I was thinking when I read it.
    Az

    -- Luck favors the well prepared.

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    Member Array Sledzep01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzB View Post
    Beat me to it. That's exactly what I was thinking when I read it.
    +1
    At that point, you fear for your life, already a hostage and you draw your weapon....
    If someone goes to try and stop you defending yourself... if they were shot by you would that be self defense? Naturally you continued to shoot the BG and resolve the situation?
    Do you think you would be cleared?

    Sled

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    The BG is the biggest threat. If another hostage tried to stop me, which I don't think he would have time to, I believe that he could be stopped by less extreme measures, without shooting him.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Senior Member Array AlexHassin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Was watching a Criminal Minds show tonight. Hostage situation on a commuter train. Guy in a suit slowly moves his hand into his briefcase. One guy says, "What are you doing?!?" A lady chimes in, "Don't be stew-pid!" Guy pulls out a Bible. OK haha.
    lol.
    If I was in a hostage situation I would not go slowly for a weapon. If I was going for a book I hope it would be a more interesting one. Though I would think a hostage situation would be more interesting then that.

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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Was watching a Criminal Minds show tonight. Hostage situation on a commuter train. Guy in a suit slowly moves his hand into his briefcase. One guy says, "What are you doing?!?" A lady chimes in, "Don't be stew-pid!" Guy pulls out a Bible. OK haha.

    But what if you or I am that guy and our neighbors react in a similar, or worse way? Either they give away your surprise or they fight you before you can act. I can't see that turning out well.
    Having not seen the show, I'm not clear as to the totality of circumstances and the overall environment...and am not clear who is "good" or who is "bad"...and why
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

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    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    I've thought of this before. I've also thought of what happens if someone mistakes me for another BG if I draw in an active shooter or hostage situation
    Glock 19
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    Senior Member Array DUNDEM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    I've thought of this before. I've also thought of what happens if someone mistakes me for another BG if I draw in an active shooter or hostage situation
    Agreed. Gotta be with uick with the shot and reholster when the threat is down.

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    Scripts...

    First of all, it's not the bystanders' responsibility to defend me, nor is it their option to approve/disapprove of me defending myself. If I were the bystander and the hostage next to me pulls a gun, I'm thinking, "Thank God!" and praying he (or she) is a good shot.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    There is also the remote possibility that a hostage that interferes with your trying to shoot one of the BGs is in with the BGs.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sledzep01 View Post
    +1
    At that point, you fear for your life, already a hostage and you draw your weapon....
    If someone goes to try and stop you defending yourself... if they were shot by you would that be self defense? Naturally you continued to shoot the BG and resolve the situation?
    Do you think you would be cleared?

    Sled
    I don't know about Georgia but in Texas unless it could be shown that each person you shot was one of a group of kidnappers you would be in a world of trouble.
    TEX PE. CODE ANN. 9.05 : Texas Statutes - Section 9.05: RECKLESS INJURY OF INNOCENT THIRD PERSON
    Even though an actor is justified under this chapter in threatening or using force or deadly force against another, if in doing so he also recklessly injures or kills an innocent third person, the justification afforded by this chapter is unavailable in a prosecution for the reckless injury or killing of the innocent third person.
    Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.
    and
    TEX PE. CODE ANN. 9.06 : Texas Statutes - Section 9.06: CIVIL REMEDIES UNAFFECTED
    The fact that conduct is justified under this chapter does not abolish or impair any remedy for the conduct that is available in a civil suit.

    Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994
    Our justification and civil immunity only apply to the shooting of bad guys under specific circumstances. Any shooting not meeting the specified criteria earns you the title of Bad Guy.
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  16. #15
    Senior Member Array sdprof's Avatar
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    if in doing so he also recklessly injures or kills an innocent third person,
    I think the bolded word is important here. Sure, if the defender just goes into pray and spray mode, bad on him.
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