Scenario training

This is a discussion on Scenario training within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I posted this thread about a company called Threat Dynamics . I am actually thinking about buying a franchise, so this evening I went over ...

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Thread: Scenario training

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    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    Scenario training

    I posted this thread about a company called Threat Dynamics. I am actually thinking about buying a franchise, so this evening I went over to meet with the owner, learn more about the company and talk business.

    He ran me through some simulations. Ugh. Very very different than shooting at stationary targets or running an IPSC course. In the scenarios, there were people who actually pointed guns at you and shooting at you. Here is what happened.

    First scenario: A shooting at a college. I am a visitor to the school. I am walking down the hallway and see dead students and blood everywhere. One student is still conscious and points to my left. All of a sudden, someone comes out of a hallwayÖ.points a gun at me and opens fire. I return fire, hitting him and he goes down. Uh, er, I am dead, too. We continue. Another person comes out, points a shotgun and I open fire. I think I got shot.

    Second scenario: I walk into a convenience store. I am in the chips section and can see the door. Two guys walk in. One goes left. One has an oversized jacket on with a heavy weight in his pocket. With no warning, he puts his hand in his pocket, takes out a gun and shoots the clerk. I use my command voice and tell him to put down the gun. He turns towards me and I shoot him. I do not see his buddy the whole time.

    Third scenario: I am at the top floor, uncovered of a parking garage. I see shadows behind the cars in front of me. A guy on my left starts talking jive to me while holding a tire iron. I point my gun at him and tell him to put down the tire iron. He resists. Two more people appear from behind the other cars. I shoot one, the other runs and someone comes from behind me and shoots me in the back.

    Lessons learned:

    1. Forget about carrying my little LCP as my primary. It ainít gonna cut it. I am going back to my Glock 26.
    2. Forget the legal issues. If someone opens fire unprovoked, no verbal commands, just shoot him. Where was his partner? Behind me? Donít know. No place to hide. Tunnel vision.
    3. If you see shadows from behind cover and someone else coming at you with a tire iron, run. Watch your back. It is an ambush and you are justified in opening fire.
    4. I hesitated in some of the scenarios because I couldnít tell if the person was a good guy or bad guy. I know it cost me my life on two occasions.
    5. Tunnel vision is a reality. I missed a lot and this was a simulation.
    6. This isnít as easy as everyone talks about on the forum. With all due respect guys, when things happen, they happen quick. I had a gun in my hand the whole time. No drawing involved in any scenario and it was still not fast enough. You ainít Jack Bauer. The bad guys are used to doing this. You arenít.
    7. Practice, practice, practice. Practice scenario training with air soft. You will be much better prepared should something real happen.

    This is great training and everyone who carries concealed needs to run through these. I am very serious about buying this franchise because I see a demand and would be a great business to be in. I may even be a traveling trainer and may come to a city near you.
    Preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse or Rapture....whichever comes first.

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    Now you have a better understanding of the stuff I've been ranting about here for four years now.
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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Does this trainer allow for movement on your part, or are you stuck pretty much in one place.

    For instance the school scenario, are you allowed once you see the guy with the gun to get off the X while firing/returning fire?
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Does this trainer allow for movement on your part, or are you stuck pretty much in one place.

    For instance the school scenario, are you allowed once you see the guy with the gun to get off the X while firing/returning fire?
    Absolutely. This was as real as it gets. Lots of movement. The school scenario was done on basically a big flat screen. The parking lot and convenience store were done on a 300 degree platform. I had images essentially all around me and I was able to move as needed. One thing I learned is if someone is about to shoot you....uh, er, move and shoot.
    Preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse or Rapture....whichever comes first.

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    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExactlyMyPoint View Post
    6. This isn’t as easy as everyone talks about on the forum. With all due respect guys, when things happen, they happen quick. I had a gun in my hand the whole time. No drawing involved in any scenario and it was still not fast enough. You ain’t Jack Bauer. The bad guys are used to doing this. You aren’t.
    .

    Sounds like a lot of people would benefit from this training.


    As would I. It's not too far from me, I'll have to look into it. It sounds very cool and fun and tough, and certainly worthwhile.
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    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Sounds like really good training....maybe after I take some classes I will have to make my way out there (unless a franchise pops up closer)
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    Now you have a better understanding of the stuff I've been ranting about here for four years now.
    Amen to that.

    Dynamic scenarios are about as good as it gets for training. You can screw up and still go home. Its better with Simuntions though,they hurt and make you think about what you did wrong.

    What it does do is make you aware of just how unprepared you really are...
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Sounds like it was educational for all concerned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    What it does do is make you aware of just how unprepared you really are...
    You have the option of wearing a "Threat Fire" belt around your torso which gives you a 5,000 volt shock for a duration of .2 seconds to simulate being shot. I believe the perameters of the Threat Fire belt can be adjusted for duration and or intensity. Kind of like a mini-taser. They compare it to being shot by an air soft gun.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExactlyMyPoint View Post

    Lessons learned:

    1. Forget about carrying my little LCP as my primary. It ain’t gonna cut it. I am going back to my Glock 26.
    Why is the LCP not acceptable? (I agree by the way)

    Great post. The thing that most people don't realize is that the BG knows what's going to happen way before you do. This gives him a great advantage over you. For example, the shooting at Fort Hood. Even if every person there had a gun the BG would have still been able to shoot many people before anyone could draw their weapon and take him down. Only he knew what was going to happen and had the advantage of surprise. Granted, he would have killed fewer people if others were armed but he still had a huge advantage.

    The same applies true to dog attacks. They are on you in a matter of seconds with little time to think.
    "Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"

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    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    I remember at Altus AFB using one of their scenario sims years ago. they used air pressure to simulate recoil and it was in front of large screens...I forgot what it was called, but it also showed me how slow my reaction time was then, how bad my threat assessment was then (I shot a photographer while escorting a VIP) and how bad a shot I was with an M16 under stress, lol.
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    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sig35seven View Post
    Why is the LCP not acceptable? (I agree by the way)
    I carry the LCP as a "personal defense" weapon. Sort of a one on one scenario to allow me to get away. I learned in the school shooting and ambush situation that it is just not going to be enough for a variety of reasons. It is not enough to shoot the attacker, you have to STOP him and I just don't think the LCP is going to do it. Each attacker had a minimum of 9mm. Some had shotguns. With an LCP, I might as well have had a stick....a small one. Of course, it is better to learn that in a simulation than real life.
    Preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse or Rapture....whichever comes first.

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    I carry the LCP as a "personal defense" weapon. Sort of a one on one scenario to allow me to get away. I learned in the school shooting and ambush situation that it is just not going to be enough for a variety of reasons. It is not enough to shoot the attacker, you have to STOP him and I just don't think the LCP is going to do it. Each attacker had a minimum of 9mm. Some had shotguns. With an LCP, I might as well have had a stick....a small one. Of course, it is better to learn that in a simulation than real life.
    Congratulations.

    Now you understand why I am not an advocate of tiny guns that are easy to carry. Sure they are convenient, easy to carry and all will argue that ANY gun is better than no gun, which is true. However, in a full fledged gun battle in which your the longevity of your life will be determined by your tools and your ability to use them,you don't want a dinky gun, you want as big a gun as you can get with as much capacity as you can get, in order to meet the scenarios that you were presented with.
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    Senior Member Array A1C Lickey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    I remember at Altus AFB using one of their scenario sims years ago. they used air pressure to simulate recoil and it was in front of large screens...I forgot what it was called, but it also showed me how slow my reaction time was then, how bad my threat assessment was then (I shot a photographer while escorting a VIP) and how bad a shot I was with an M16 under stress, lol.
    It was called the FATS system. We have it here at Luke. It's a great tool, but you can't move.
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    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A1C Lickey View Post
    It was called the FATS system. We have it here at Luke. It's a great tool, but you can't move.
    Now I remember! haha..yeah, no movement, predetermined path. But it was great for gauging reaction, decision and aim
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