Retrieving Stolen Property

[merlin82plus]

Deadly force is allowed against threat of death, serious bodily harm, or rape, not necessarily a simple burglary, which is not a threat against life and limb.

I, too, feel there's more to this story than posted. For whatever reason, guy pulls chain, Guy2 pulls gun; guy2 gets arrested? Cops won't respond?

I had the wrong state... TX allows use of deadly force in some circumstances that most states would not:
Deadly force is only justified when the individual reasonably believes that deadly force is immediately necessary to stop the other individual's unlawful actions, which include aggravated robbery, arson, burglary, criminal mischief during the night or theft at night. Deadly force may also be used to prevent the person who has committed the criminal act from fleeing with the property. The individual who uses deadly force must reasonably believe, however, that the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means except by the use of deadly force.

Read more: Texas Penal Code Laws on the Use of Deadly Force | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_6656468_tex...#ixzz13DNGZqza

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[HKinNY]

I've seen ads on Craigslist for 'collection agents' before..

Any person can hire a Repo company to collect there property. It sounds like OP financed/bought a vehicle for the other person and they did not make the payments as promissed. Since OP was on the note for the bank,They were holding his feet to the fire or got fed up with false promisses. The OP wanted back the vehicle. For a few hundred dollars the repo company would have picked up the vehicle and held it until you picked it from them. Trouble Free. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Giffordd]

I did file a report, provided pictures, VIN#, and a description of the interior contents. What most of the responders failed to understand is that I only drew my firearm in defense after the perp started swinging a logging chain at me.

[Giffordd]

He was not driving my car, my car was partially stripped sitting in his front yard. I did report to our local LEO's where my car was at they just did not ever catch the thief at home so gave up on recovery or arrest.

[EB31]

What most of the responders failed to understand is that I only drew my firearm in defense after the perp started swinging a logging chain at me.

No, we got that loud and clear. What you're failing to understand is that you were severely wrong in taking the law into your own hands by stalking/surveilling the guy who stole your car, severely wrong in approaching him on his property and severely wrong in putting yourself in a situation where you forced him to have to defend himself from you and then to top it all off...you draw a gun on him.

I'm saying shame on you all around. As I said before, you got off easy with probation. Imo you should have had your permit revoked.

[rammerjammer]

No, we got that loud and clear. What you're failing to understand is that you were severely wrong in taking the law into your own hands by stalking/surveilling the guy who stole your car, severely wrong in approaching him on his property and severely wrong in putting yourself in a situation where you forced him to have to defend himself from you and then to top it all off...you draw a gun on him.

I'm saying shame on you all around. As I said before, you got off easy with probation. Imo you should have had your permit revoked.

Your actions were plain stupid. What did you expect to have happen? If you're looking for sympathy this is the wring place. You obviously should not have a legal permit to carry. Your permit is for your protection, it doesn't make you a super hero or a cop.

[DUNDEM]

Deadly force is allowed against threat of death, serious bodily harm, or rape, not necessarily a simple burglary, which is not a threat against life and limb.

I, too, feel there's more to this story than posted. For whatever reason, guy pulls chain, Guy2 pulls gun; guy2 gets arrested? Cops won't respond?

Agreed.

[INccwchris]

ok lets look at this in a backwards play by play in each segment by itself, man pulls chain first, man two pulls gun in self defense, were this to happen on a street without the other circumstances in play, man two is justified, next part, man two finds his vehicle in man ones yard, begins arguing with man one, man one pulls chain, man two pulls gun, man two not justified, he instigated the threat. now lets put everything else in play, man two stalks man one and follows him home, depending on local laws, this is a misdemeanor, man two approaches man one demanding his vehicle back, now we have trespassing on man ones property, again, misdemeanor, man one pulls chain in self defense, man two pulls gun because man one pulls chain, now we have someone defending themselves, and you pulled your gun on them, thats assault with a deadly weapon. FELONY!!!! so now because you took the law into your own hands, you could have faced two misdemeanor charges and one felony charge, YOU BROKE THE LAW. What you fail to understand is that when you instigated the whole incident instead of just calling the cops when you found the vehicle, which at this point would not have been a problem had you reported it and waited for them to arrive. YOU went up to him and tried to take back your vehicle, once you INSTIGATE a confrontation, you completley LOSE your right to self defense. This is not self defense because you started the whole thing. Its not the one part of it that can be justified, the whole situation was FUBAR once you decided to use your CCW as a vigilante badge and go try to take your property back instead of calling men with badges to take care of the problem. You could have avoided the whole incident by just poking the cops to do something, instead you did something stupid and now your whining because the totality of your illegal actions got you in some hot water. I am not saying you are stupid, I understand where you came from, its your property, you wanted it back, but you did it the wrong way. You are lucky you got off so easy.

[ctsketch]

I had my car stolen and due to residing in a small community it did not take long to find the individual responsible. I contacted LE, they attempted to contact the person, who had a lengthy criminal hx but they could not catch him at home so they just ignored my complaint. One evening I was watching the persons house to see if and when they would return home and they drove up in their driveway. Long story short I demanded my car back, the individual picked up a logging tie down chain and started swinging; I drew my firearm and told him to drop the chain, he quickly complied. The next day he filed a complaint against me for threatening him with a firearm, I was arrested and charged with intimidation with a weapon (I had a CCW permit) they confiscated my gun and put me on two years probation. Nothing was ever done about him stealing my car and it took me three years to get the charge expunged from my record which again gave me a clean criminal hx. The law works in strange ways.

Why did you not call the law that same night you drew your weapon? now they only have his side of the story. hell why did you confront him armed in the first place?! call the police if this dude really has your car and he's home.

[ctsketch]

He was not driving my car, my car was partially stripped sitting in his front yard. I did report to our local LEO's where my car was at they just did not ever catch the thief at home so gave up on recovery or arrest.

Why is this so unbelievable? what are you not telling us?

[mrm]

so in an effort to recover your own property you took your weapon and essentially tried to steal it back when you confronted a man on his property who defended himself with a tire chain, i think you got off easy, you went off half-cocked and took the law into your own hands, there is a reason we have men with badges AND guns, not just guns. let them do their job and stay back, IMHO you should not have gotten your permit back since you obviously did not take the time to learn the difference in justified self-defense or the fact that a permit is not a badge. You deserve what you got, because in essence, even though it was your property you were stealing back, you committed armed robbery or at the least assault with a deadly weapon.

I see your point here but I think you are missing one valid point and that is that if he is truthfull he went to the guys house and was talking to him be it rational or irational the guy had no right not even on his own property to pick up a logging chain and swing it at him to me that is assault with a deadly weapon, are we saying that cause you feel like a conversation is not going your way you can assault someone NO. The person with the car should have called the police and dealt with it, but since he choose not to do that I think he should have been arrested also.

[TedBeau]

So I'm confused. This guy stole your car. Later, you engage in some surveillance, and find the guy driving your car, and he parks it.

What prevented you from just waiting until he's left the car and gone somewhere else, and then unlock the car with your key, get inside, start that puppy up, and drive to the police station, where you could invite them to search the car for drugs or other evidence of criminal activity?

It's not like you can be accused of stealing a car you actually own.

The only problem with inviting the cops to search the car is if they find drugs, how do you prove to them they are not your drugs? IT sounds like these cops are not on the ball. They might check the registration and discover that you reported it stolen, yet here you are driving it around and charge you with filing a false police report. Just saying if the cops don't "feel" like tracking this car thief down it sounds like there is something wrong here.

[INccwchris]

good point mrm

[glockfan23]

I think this story B.S , the OP is making this out nothing make sense

[mcp1810]

He was not driving my car, my car was partially stripped sitting in his front yard. I did report to our local LEO's where my car was at they just did not ever catch the thief at home so gave up on recovery or arrest.

So if the stolen vehicle was sitting in the yard, and you watched the guy walk in the house, why not just call the police then?

I see your point here but I think you are missing one valid point and that is that if he is truthfull he went to the guys house and was talking to him be it rational or irational the guy had no right not even on his own property to pick up a logging chain and swing it at him to me that is assault with a deadly weapon, are we saying that cause you feel like a conversation is not going your way you can assault someone NO. The person with the car should have called the police and dealt with it, but since he choose not to do that I think he should have been arrested also.

What is the law there about trespassers? Does it allow force of any kind to be used to force them to leave?
If the conversation was one person saying "Give me my car!", and the other person saying "Get off my property!" that could legally change the ball game here.
We would now be looking at an alleged car thief and an actual trespasser.
Swinging a chain at a trespasser is a bit over the top, but my opinion does not matter on that. All that matters is what the local law allows.