Mob Vs 2 Drivers? A Tactical Question...

Mob Vs 2 Drivers? A Tactical Question...

This is a discussion on Mob Vs 2 Drivers? A Tactical Question... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I hate it when you're leaving the game and a mob decides they don't like you or your car... http://www.ktvu.com/video/25602908/index.html An interesting situation. It would ...

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Thread: Mob Vs 2 Drivers? A Tactical Question...

  1. #1
    Member Array Ensiferum's Avatar
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    Mob Vs 2 Drivers? A Tactical Question...

    I hate it when you're leaving the game and a mob decides they don't like you or your car...

    http://www.ktvu.com/video/25602908/index.html

    An interesting situation. It would seem that Tony Scotti's point that as soon as your vehicle is stopped, an ambush is almost guaranteed success.

    What would be the best response if you're the driver of the car?

    1. Honk the horn and keep pushing through the crowd, and thus keep moving, but risk injuring someone walking in front of the vehicle who won't move?

    2. Have a can of pepper gel (not spray) in the vehicle and try to use it on the people at the windows and hope it persuades enough of the crowd to go seek their entertainment elsewhere? (Pepper spray would get everywhere and likely on yourself as well.)

    3. Claim that you "thought you saw a weapon" and point a pistol, or figure that if someone sees it, they'll pull a weapon and thus you'd be justified in shooting?

    4. Do nothing, hope for the best, plan on an insurance claim and some Tylenol.

    What are your thoughts? Quoting Mr. Miyagi's advice of, "Just don't be there." doesn't count.

    Thanks!


  2. #2
    Member Array xjakex's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure if that was me in that situation, I would have just drove through the people. It would have been one thing for people to be damaging just my truck, but people are attacking the people as well.

    But after seeing this video, it almost seems like a good idea to keep a nice strip of Black Cats in the glove box. You could light those, toss em out, and I'm sure everyone would take off.

  3. #3
    Member Array Ensiferum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xjakex View Post
    I'm pretty sure if that was me in that situation, I would have just drove through the people. It would have been one thing for people to be damaging just my truck, but people are attacking the people as well.

    But after seeing this video, it almost seems like a good idea to keep a nice strip of Black Cats in the glove box. You could light those, toss em out, and I'm sure everyone would take off.
    That's awesome! Never thought of that. Maybe even something bigger, like M80's or such. Yell out the window, "Gun!!" then drop the string of lit firecrackers.

    You'd be able to get away with minimal damage to the vehicle, you and your passenger haven't been pulled out and beaten, and if the cops tied the firecrackers to you (and wrote a ticket), it'd likely only be a misdemeanor.

    Very Nice! Thanks.
    Last edited by Ensiferum; November 2nd, 2010 at 11:29 AM. Reason: typo

  4. #4
    Member Array Rail Driver's Avatar
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    I think if I were in that car, I'd start with #1, and if that didn't work I'd be moving on to #2 (only I'd be using gel or foam in order to run much less risk of being affected by my own defensive product) If that doesn't work, and they're still all over my car &etc, I'd likely have one of the other occupants of the vehicle retrieve the AR from the trunk (access through the back seat) and my .45 would come out

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    That looked more like a riot than a crowd leaving a game, maybe one and the same. BTDTGTTS Get on the gas, they will move. You may lose all the windows, but they WILL move.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  6. #6
    Member Array Ensiferum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    That looked more like a riot than a crowd leaving a game, maybe one and the same. BTDTGTTS Get on the gas, they will move. You may lose all the windows, but they WILL move.
    Hi Guantes,

    Been There, Done That, huh? Sounds interesting. Lost all the windows? Was it a sports thing or unruly mob? Did you use the horn, or just the bumper?

    Just curious. Thanks!

  7. #7
    Ex Member Array Glocksin's Avatar
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    A combo of #1 and #4.Somebody dumb enough to stand in front of a moving vehicle deserves to get run over.Anything worse and the guns come out.I imagine a mob would move pretty quick if my passenger hung out the window with a 12 gauge.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    It was during one of the ELA riots, rolling into a park on an assistance call. Immediately surrounded by a mob throwing rocks, bricks, bottles, etc. I had an eight pound piece of concrete busted from a park bench bust the drivers window and land in my lap. Opened the four barrel and watched the gymnasts get out of the way.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    That is a full on riot and those people, they are rioters acting with intent to do personal harm and inflict personal injury.
    I would myself take this to be personal, and as such react in kind.

    I've already decided long ago after watching the LA Riots and Reginald Denny on TV that if ever caught up in some scat storm such as this; I am going to select D3/low gear and stand on the gas. Any less and you motivate the crowd to _not_ move away as they continue to attack and increase in numbers.
    Not an advisory; Just my multiple event since the LA Riots observation and to current personal position.

    In news three weeks ago was this incident to whihc very honestly I would have done the _exact same thing_ as this driver.
    I'd rather be a feature on the news saving my own life at the expense of an attacker(s), rather than suffering personal injury as to not expense the life of my attacker(s).

    Jewish Settler Hits Palestinian Kids With A Car & Drives Off
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvwDt8C4LVU

    Mobs are to be respected and not taken lightly.

    - Janq

    P.S. - In my case the victim and attackers happen to be of different ethic backgrounds.
    In the OPs case it's just party revelers drunk and high. I've seen and been first person victim in the streets same as related to race (black vs. white/minority and white vs. black/minority).
    It does not matter, to my mind, what the catalyst might have been or for why. Leave...And when necessary defend yourself, by any and all means functional.
    The vehicle in the OPs video likely weighs at least 3K. lbs and likely makes at least 150 HP and Tq (tractive force).
    Basic physics works same for cars as it does for firearm projectiles in that that; Mass x Velocity = Momentum and that 1/2 Mass x Velocity squared = Kinetic Energy.
    It is both momentum and kinetic energy that stops threats be it animal or humans acting like animals. Science.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  10. #10
    Member Array Pepsi's Avatar
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    wow, crazy situation...reminds me of the movie " war of the worlds" with tom cruise...i think driving thru would be a good option.

    Having fire crackers in this situation would be great...but having such an explosive item in my car..ehh i donno..

    having a gun in the trunk in this situation doesnt work...

    blank ammo would be great for this also...

    on a good note, atleast there was one guy ( driver side, white cap) that was trying to help hold back the mob

  11. #11
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    for all those saying you would use pepper spray/foam... i hope you have a tank in your trunk with a 1 inch booster line from a fire truck to successful deploy it,...... that was a lot of people.

    I'd hit the gas and just start going.. The sheep will get out of the way. If that doesn't work well I don't know what then because I don't have enough ammo to wage a small battle that would surely ensue if guns were brought out. (of course that is assuming that the people stick around to see what happens)
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  12. #12
    Ex Member Array Glocksin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    I've already decided long ago after watching the LA Riots and Reginald Denny on TV that if ever caught up in some scat storm such as this; I am going to select D3/low gear and stand on the gas. Any less and you motivate the crowd to _not_ move away as they continue to attack and increase in numbers.


    Jewish Settler Hits Palestinian Kids With A Car & Drives Off
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvwDt8C4LVU
    LOL at that link about Jewish settler.Dumb rock throwing kids got what they deserved.

    And im not sure if you drive something with less than 4 cylinders or you just paranoid after watching that Expedition get flipped in I Am Legend,but anything automatic built these days will move people out of the way without manually putting tranny in lower gear.It will downshift itself if it feels the need to,dont waste time trying to do all the work.Thats what automatics are for.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    I don't understand why the guy didn't just drive away. Nothing really preventing him from doing so. Besides, I bet he feared for his life. If the rioters don't get out of the way, that is there problem.
    Preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse or Rapture....whichever comes first.

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glocksin View Post
    ...And im not sure if you drive something with less than 4 cylinders or you just paranoid after watching that Expedition get flipped in I Am Legend,but anything automatic built these days will move people out of the way without manually putting tranny in lower gear.It will downshift itself if it feels the need to,dont waste time trying to do all the work.Thats what automatics are for.
    I'm not paranoid about anything, especially not as related to a scene from a fictional Hollyweird movie about fictional zombies (Huh?).

    My vehicles current are 4 and 6 cylinder, both being automatics.
    As well I have a background in mechanical engineering specializing in automotive engineering.
    I happen to be very well acquainted with the function of an automatic trans, thanks.

    Yes a modern vehicle moving one or two people (or kids) is not a problem for D (drive), especially when it already has momentum asper my video example. To that end though it's just as simple as cutting the wheel to drive around as rather than over/under a person.
    My mind view is toward a mass of people....Many people deep and they are pushing back against the vehicle. Akin to how very often these type mob attack events have gone.
    In that case I would want _maximal_ tractive force assuming I am starting from zero mph, and that I'm going to get by manually selecting third gear or low gear lockout. I want maximal push force. As like when pushing snow or some other doesn't wanna move easy type heavy object or resistive force.

    Also I don't know what would be _behind_ these people as hidden by their bodies.
    Items that might include me driving off street (can no longer see road markings) as into solid objects in and about these people.
    My focus would be to continue moving, period, no matter who or what I hit and drive over/under so as to flee...Straight to safety and/or the police (As the Israeli in my video did upon escape).

    This has nothing to do though with how many cylinders the engine has as modern non-commercial truck auto trannys largely all act the same in function.
    CVTs excepted (see Prius among a handful of others).

    I pay zero attention to fictional Hollywood scenarios and results. That is fiction for entertainment.
    Real world examples and results are what I base my own lessons against and on, as by proxy.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  15. #15
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    I am going to start doing donuts...and I mean wild,reckless donuts complete with smoking tires. When I clear all the fools I am taking off to get out of Dodge.

    If I manage to get stopped, I am pulling out the Saiga complete with 20 round drum and I will proceed to empty it. I figure 20 rounds of double ought buck to clear most of them out. It they persist... the next up will be Dragons Breath. No one likes to see anyone burn. If they still persist when I am out of ammo,I will jump out the window amongst the converging crowd with the loudest Tarzan yell that I can muster, while pulling the pin on the grenade that I wear around my neck for such emergencies.

    They may eventually get me, but they'll have to crawl over a pile of bodies.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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