The Picnic

This is a discussion on The Picnic within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; It was not my point to suggest a more aggressive action, merely to point out what I see as potential hazards in an action that ...

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  1. #91
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    It was not my point to suggest a more aggressive action, merely to point out what I see as potential hazards in an action that seems to be popular in this situation.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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  3. #92
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    It was not my point to suggest a more aggressive action, merely to point out what I see as potential hazards in an action that seems to be popular in this situation.
    I see the point... One reason i think most of us are of the mindset to get out of there... is that that is what they (the BGs) want. They're showing their strength against the weak. Leaving lets them "win" and brag about it amongst themselves. In a potentially dangerous situation, if possible, it's better to lose face than risk life.

    Under the color of the law, as LEO, the circumstances are different. But even so, in the actual events, you had time to pre-arrange a signal, retrieve the weapon, get the apple and sit on the table. Unless you and your family are "No Ordinary Family" (a current show on the TOOB), it took more than a few seconds to do all of that. For the citizen, that time could be well spent getting out of the OK Corral. Worst case, that's not enough to massage the egos of the 1%ers... and they give pursuit. That's when I start shootin from the car, and, if need be, send the wife and kids on.
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
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  4. #93
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    If the "assumption" that all they want is for you to leave and to flex their muscles proves true, then I agree. Also about losing face being inconsequential. If on the other hand their intentions are more egregious......... As previously stated it is a judgement call and all anyone can do is use their best judgement and commit to their decision, once made.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  5. #94
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Guantes, I for one applaud your actions. I think you did absolutley the right thing. To be pushed around and run off by thugs is not living. You would be pretending to be living, but in reality you have surrendered your freedom to be where you want, eat where you want. We celebrate our second amendment rights, and thousands wave the flag and talk about liberty, yet are not willing to take a stand.
    No, I'm not condemning those here who would flee, lest anyone get their feelings hurt, I just find it interesting how people judge those who do stand up against evil among us. Interesting:

  6. #95
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    PM coming.

  7. #96
    Member Array chivvalry's Avatar
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    “Know yourself, know your enemy, and you need not fear one hundred battles. Know only yourself and not your enemy, and for every victory gained you shall sustain defeat. Know neither yourself, nor your enemy, and you shall succumb in every battle” - Sun Tzu

    ...or better yet...

    “The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy.” – Sun Tzu
    "I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
    You are not paranoid if They are actually out to get you, however, They probably are not and you probably are.

  8. #97
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    The sad part is that living in this "free society" we had to constantly give up out rights. It's as much your right to sit there and have a picnic as it is theirs. I can't give an answer as to what I would do, because this is one of those senarios that I would have to face before making a decision. I know what it feels like to not do something and have to walk around with the guilt that it causes, even though not doing anything was the logical choice. It's always easier to walk away from something when it's just you, but when your family is around it's harder to save face. Human nature is to beat your hands against your chest to show your dominance. But, the law says that you can be liable if you escalate the situation. So, what do you do. There are several options. Standup and fight and risk losing your life as well as the lives of you loved ones. Change the laws? A common sence law would state that you have the right to fight back if you are legally permitted to be where you are.(stand your ground laws) Leave and secure your family. Probably the best and more likely option. After all, who says you can't go back with some friends after you have taken your family to safety. 1%'er may be bad, but I would be more scared of a bunch of rednecks with scoped rifles and camo shooting from cover. There are alot of marshes and hungry gators around here. That would be the more likely senario in these parts. I guess it all depends on how many more of your rights you want to give up to the parasites that infest this planet. I can't fault glockman for the way he feels. I can't say I would do what he said he would do, but after everything is said and done he would be standing up for his rights. We are constantly fighting our own polititians to keep our rights, but we're just going to just giveup the most fundimental right that god gave us? The right to exist. The right to just be somewhere when the law says you can legally be there. Are you going to give up your right to own a firearm as easily? How about your right to defend yourself? I see people ranting and raving all of the time about what they would do if the law tried to take their firearms away. Most people would fight back against a legal authority, but they wouldn't fight for their rights against a bunch of criminals? I'm not saying to get into a firefight with 15 people, but there are ways to level the playing field.
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  9. #98
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Guantes, I for one applaud your actions. I think you did absolutley the right thing. To be pushed around and run off by thugs is not living. You would be pretending to be living, but in reality you have surrendered your freedom to be where you want, eat where you want. We celebrate our second amendment rights, and thousands wave the flag and talk about liberty, yet are not willing to take a stand.
    No, I'm not condemning those here who would flee, lest anyone get their feelings hurt, I just find it interesting how people judge those who do stand up against evil among us. Interesting:
    I won't say I didn't judge... And, I do understand where you're coming from...
    Barring the small details of the scenario, later added by Gloves...
    I.E.: I don't have "code words" to give my family, I don't have long arms in any vehicles, and I don't have the color of law to work under...
    In the scenario, I am just a citizen, with a child, wife, and myself to protect, and in that order.

    And, regardless of my history, or my sensibilities about the rights of people to be where they want, when they want, as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others or is otherwise illegal, my priority is to protect the lives of my offspring and spouse, not to show the bad boys that they have reached the end of their road.

    Even if I am alone in the scenario presented, my first priority does not change, the protection of my family unit is paramount. While I may wish to do otherwise, I will probably still choose to leave, because I don't want my children to grow up with a posthumously heroic, but absent, father; as I do not believe that is in their best interest.

    I laud those who would stand up to evil among us. The military, the police, the firefighters, and all the others who heroically go out there every day to fight evil for the rest of us. But that, as a civilian, is not my chosen profession. As a civilian, it is my duty to protect myself and mine.

    Were these scenarios an everyday occurence because of a change in the fabric of our society, my mindset would be different. Many feel those times are upon us. Not quite yet, I think. They are getting closer, else I and many others would not feel the need to protect themselves "now" more than "before." If those feelings escalate, then my mindset will evolve around the newer paradigm.
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
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    John Adams

  10. #99
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I find no fault in anyones actions, who has given consideration to the ramifications of various courses of action and chosen what they think is best for them and their loved ones. Neither, do I apologize for actions of my own under the same conditions.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  11. #100
    B94
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Guantes, I for one applaud your actions. I think you did absolutley the right thing. To be pushed around and run off by thugs is not living. You would be pretending to be living, but in reality you have surrendered your freedom to be where you want, eat where you want. We celebrate our second amendment rights, and thousands wave the flag and talk about liberty, yet are not willing to take a stand.
    No, I'm not condemning those here who would flee, lest anyone get their feelings hurt, I just find it interesting how people judge those who do stand up against evil among us. Interesting:
    As your family drives off and leaves you alone the other 150 biker gang members pull up. Now what?
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  12. #101
    Member Array centermass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B94 View Post
    As your family drives off and leaves you alone the other 150 biker gang members pull up. Now what?
    Duck and cover?
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  13. #102
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    The six or eight units shadowing the 150 gang members would also pull in.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  14. #103
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    I personally back Guantes and Gman, nothing wrong with open carrying a long gun in the boondocks. I would be ready to react if need be, legalities go out the window when my familes lives are involved. If I have to open fire, I will, regardless of death or jail, my family comes first no matter what
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  15. #104
    B94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    The six or eight units shadowing the 150 gang members would also pull in.
    glockman10mm's swingin so big I bet he wouldn't need any backup.
    PRO-SECOND AMENDMENT - Live Free or Die

  16. #105
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Commitment combined with enthusiasm can often make one appear overzealous.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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