A scenario from the news

This is a discussion on A scenario from the news within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I caught this story on the morning news and it raised some questions for me. Full Story Here Police: Woman Used Stun Gun In Walmart ...

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Thread: A scenario from the news

  1. #1
    Member Array Hedgelj's Avatar
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    A scenario from the news

    I caught this story on the morning news and it raised some questions for me. Full Story Here
    Police: Woman Used Stun Gun In Walmart Parking Lot Robbery
    A woman was in custody on Wednesday, accused of robbing a woman in a Walmart parking lot.....Lewis, 27, allegedly tried to shock the woman with a stun gun
    Another story here

    The television news story said that it was a taser where both of these print news stories mention it as a stun gun. Yes I know the news is always great about getting details right so I'm not as worried about that but it poses an unique scenario I haven't thought much about.

    What is a good course of action if someone attempts to rob you at "taser point"? or "stun gun point"? Or with OC spray?
    None of those fall under lethal force, so what is an appropriate reaction?

    How though are we to know what their intentions are though once they incapacitate us with those options? That could easily lead me to believe I am at risk for serious bodily harm, so that is where I am at a loss as to how to mentally prepare for this situation.

    Thoughts?

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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    How many people have died from head injuries from falling down? And as you said, you don't know what they are going to do while you are incapacitated.
    Review your state laws on self defense. If the threshold is that you "reasonably fear" death or serious bodily harm, and you can show knowledge of previous incidents where less lethal technology was used and ended with a victim seriously injured or dead, I would think that fear is reasonable.
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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    It is still robbery, a felony, and in most cases armed robbery. In many areas that is sufficient to deploy deadly force.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Member Array Hedgelj's Avatar
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    After mulling over this for a while I think I have an appropriate answer.

    It would depend on a lot more then what I gave in the scenario. Distance between me and them, exactly what they empolyed (as a stun gun is a lot less of a threat from 20 feet than 2 feet) and other things. However if they threatedned me with potentially lethal force (as some people have died from tasers, or from hitting their head as they collapsed), or something that would incapacitate me that is serious bodily harm (something required in my state for lethal force) and I would respond accordingly.

    I also wanted to post this because how many of you have considered this situation? I know I hadn't until I saw this on the news today and not having considered this could potentially lead to hesitation which could prove costly.

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    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    a knife is less of a threat from 20 feet away and the person has a better chance of missing you with a gun at 20 feet away (dont believe me?...watch at the range)...the threat is still real....

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    Ex Member Array Glocksin's Avatar
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    As has been stated,the threat is about distance.If these women were within arms reach,i would have gone for disarm first sign of weapon.At longer range,quick draw and pop one in the knee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    It is still robbery, a felony, and in most cases armed robbery. In many areas that is sufficient to deploy deadly force.
    Yep! Forcible felony.
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    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    It is a forcible felony indeed. Also, all those methods are only "less than lethal." That doesn't guarantee they are non lethal. But that is not the standard you should use for deadly force - someone is using significant force against you to attack and rob you. That is justification enough. You will also be completely at their mercy once their attack hits you - who knows what will happen then.

    It was probably just a stun (contact) gun. Most people think all Tasers are stun guns and vice versa, which isn't true. A Taser is different, but can also be a stun gun if you take the cartridge out and use it as a contact weapon. But a regular stun gun can never be a Taser.

    Especially if you're a female, and a male comes at you with a Taser or stun gun, who knows where he'll take you while you are disabled.

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    Senior Member Array justherenow's Avatar
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    This occured less than 2 miles from my home. Found out today that the suspect was arrested and is acutally my sisters best friend and was living with my sister (note, I do not assocaite with my sister, have not in about 3 or 4 years due to drugs and alcohol use, which I do not tolerate). Anyways, the suspect attacked the person inside their car, which in Ohio would be grounds to use lethal force as Ohio's castle doctrine allows for deadly force inside your home or auto.

    I cannot say what would happen if I were the victim in this, I would surely fight back and if possible they suspect may see the muzzle end of a .45. For me there are to many variables as I usually have a child with me to protect as well.
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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    While every situation should be evaluated on its own circumstances, as I have said befor, I will not put my well being in the benevolence of criminals. If they have crossed the line to where lethal force is justified, they have brought on whatever befalls them.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Thanks for the scenario post. I, as you, have not mentally rehearsed for a threat like this and am sure its novelty would cause me a longer "orient" time. (Ref.: OODA loop.)

    Having the luxury of only reading about it here and not experiencing the imminent danger I can calmly say I would consider myself justified in shooting to stop the threat.
    "It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end"____Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519

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    If I am completely disabled, who knows what a perpetrator would do to me? Maybe their motive is to take me to another location and....? Why should I assume they'd just rob me. IMO, my assumption would be that they mean to do me gross bodily harm, period.
    Fortune favors the bold.

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    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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    Show a 'squirt gun' at me in a parking lot and I will only assume the worst and deal with it as the opportunity presents itself.
    Stun guns would allow an attacker to disarm someone...if you want to bring a stun gun to a gun fight, you do so at your own peril.OMO
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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    When you carry a gun in public, be it concealed or open carry, you have a responsibility to maintain control of that firearm. Thus, if someone presents what is considered a "less than lethal" weapon at you, coupled with opportunity and jeopardy, the case can be made for dispatching deadly force to maintain control of your weapon.

    If you don't comprehend what I'm saying, go try to snatch the gun out of a police officer's holster. If you survive, you will have a much greater appreciation for what I'm saying.

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