Question about stun guns and pacemakers

This is a discussion on Question about stun guns and pacemakers within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This question is mainly directed at the medical folk. Stun guns are sold as a less than lethal means of self-defense but if someone were ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 24

Thread: Question about stun guns and pacemakers

  1. #1
    VIP Member
    Array msgt/ret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    6,782

    Question about stun guns and pacemakers

    This question is mainly directed at the medical folk. Stun guns are sold as a less than lethal means of self-defense but if someone were to use it on a person with a pacemaker would it be considered lethal. As I do have a pacemaker would an attacker armed with a stun gun be considered justification for deadly force?
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,631
    Pacemakers come with instructions that say basically to avoid any large electrical interferences, such as large motors or generators. Even the electrical disturbance from a Micro wave can make one go haywire.

    As for your question on justification for deadly force, that would depend on the circumstances. First of all, anyone attempting to use a stun gun on you (other than a cop) wouldn't be doing it for any good reason.
    If you were incapacitated by the stun, could you be certain to maintain control of your weapon? Could it stop your heart, thus causing you to die?

    I know that police officers have shot and killed people that attacked them with a stun gun or a taser and was found justified. Would you be? That would depend on the Prosecutor and possibly a jury if it went that far.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  4. #3
    VIP Member
    Array tacman605's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arkansas/On the X in Afghanistan
    Posts
    2,994
    You have to separate Tasers and Stun Guns.

    A Taser is a bit more complicated in that although it has 50,000 volts it only produces 1/16th of an amp or something like that. (Less than a mini christmas tree light bulb). If I remember correctly from my time as a Taser Instructor the amount of amps produced will not affect a pacemaker.
    I do not know the amount of amps that an over the counter stun gun produces.

    In regards to LE again if I remember correctly if an officer is either A. disarmed of his pepper spray/taser/stun gun or B. attacked with pepper spray/taser/stun gun he is authorized to use deadly force due to the fact that he could/would be incapacitated and in theory disarmed of his firearm and have it used against him. I would think that this would spill over into the civilian side of the house.
    Now specifically if you had a pacemaker and were attacked it would probably fall under a disparity of force issue. Only you know what is considered a threat to you and as long as you could articulate that fact to LE you should be ok. Just an opinion.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  5. #4
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    charleston, SC
    Posts
    1,806
    For every case where a stun or a taser has been used successfully, it seems there are many cases where there have been unfortunate consequences due to many reasons--I do not think you need a medical opinion to understand that when you stress a person with an electric shocki you are impacting them in ways that different individuals with different maladies and conditions will react. If I read you right, my first thought was that you were concerned as the holder of the stun if you caused the death of a perp who had a pacemaker--my answer is obvious---he is the perp, he is putting you in the position of a presumption of death or great bodily injury and if he dies due to failure of his pacemaker, there should be no legal or civil problem facing you--it seems very difficult to percieve of this scenario though. Turning tables on the scenario and you are the one with a pacemaker and if god forbid you died due to a perp trying to incapacitate you that is murder in my book--unfortunately it is you that has died but I would hang the guy.

  6. #5
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    englewood, fl
    Posts
    1,751
    if you have to use a stun gun on someone with a pacemaker i believe it is them who make the mistake in judgement...not you...maybe they should have taken their condition into account before becoming a threat to someone...

    the question is akin to asking if you used your fists to defend yourself against a bleeder and they died from internal bleeding would you get into trouble for using excessive force....

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array stevem174's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    MO
    Posts
    749
    I am a Paramedic that has seen many people get hit by stun guns and tazers. I have not seen any evidence that a person with a pacemaker is any more likely to suffer sudden cardiac arrest from a stun / tazer deployment. I will tell you it sucks!
    I do not have a pacemaker but the way that I look at it is a tazer in the hands of a BG will not be used the same way or with the same intent as when LEO uses it. The BG is using the device to take away my ability to protect myself. I have no idea if they are simply going to incapacitate me to take my money or if they intend to kill me. So in my mind they have intent to cause death or great bodily harm.
    Don't do things you don't want to explain to the Paramedics!

    Stupidity should be painful.

  8. #7
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,158
    Until I see some published testing results, both independent and from the manufacturer, I will assume that a taser is going to destroy a pacemaker. That might not be lethal, but it will be darn costly to fix and repair.

    They tend to be sensitive to high frequency electromagnetic fields. Its not just voltage and amps which interrupt pacemaker operation. And as all modern electronics, shielded or not, grounded or not, it doesn't take much to fry things.

    I have no doubt that the manufacturers and the FDA know the answer to this issue, and perhaps some would not be damaged by a 50,000 volt ac jolt, but I wouldn't put my life, someone else's life, or my money on that.

    Tasers are lethal force. That has been demonstrated over and over and over again. Just google the news and see how often it happens. To deny it as many here do is to deny reality.

  9. #8
    Member Array Superfly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    21
    My thinking is that you don't bring a taser to a gun fight.

  10. #9
    VIP Member
    Array msgt/ret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    6,782
    Thank you for your responses, I really wasn’t given much info after it was implanted other than not to go through metal detectors. As for metal detectors when I go to the courthouse I just show them my card and ask for a pat down, funny thing is no one has ever noticed I am wearing an empty holster.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."

  11. #10
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,380
    Quote Originally Posted by msgt/ret View Post
    This question is mainly directed at the medical folk. Stun guns are sold as a less than lethal means of self-defense but if someone were to use it on a person with a pacemaker would it be considered lethal. As I do have a pacemaker would an attacker armed with a stun gun be considered justification for deadly force?
    With or without a pacemaker, you would be OK in using deadly force in my humble opinion.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  12. #11
    VIP Member
    Array DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Posts
    5,036
    As I understand it from my cardiologist, my pacemaker would not be disabled/destroyed. It would be de-programed and default to a format that should keep me alive until it could be re-programed.

    Hope I never have to find out, for sure -- personally.

    BTW -- He says I can use my woodworking shop tools, the microwave, etc with out worrying about their magnetic fields. Airport, court house, etc walk-through metal-detectors and the anti-theft store detectors are also OK (albeit most will be set off) -- as long as I walk through at a normal pace. However, I'm not to pause in or near them. OTOH, the hand held metal-detectors wands are to be avoided. (Alternative searches can be a pain but better than a trip to the hospital.)
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  13. #12
    VIP Member
    Array DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Posts
    5,036
    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    With or without a pacemaker, you would be OK in using deadly force in my humble opinion.


    In that one would be "stunned" (unable to defend one's self) and at the mercy of an attacker, I agree.

    In any case, I put my future in the hands of the LEO, the State's Attorney, the Judge, and (if necessary) 12 of my peers -- before at the mercy of an attacker.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  14. #13
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,158
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    As I understand it from my cardiologist, my pacemaker would not be disabled/destroyed. It would be de-programed and default to a format that should keep me alive until it could be re-programed.

    Hope I never have to find out, for sure -- personally.

    BTW -- He says I can use my woodworking shop tools, the microwave, etc with out worrying about their magnetic fields. Airport, court house, etc walk-through metal-detectors and the anti-theft store detectors are also OK (albeit most will be set off) -- as long as I walk through at a normal pace. However, I'm not to pause in or near them. OTOH, the hand held metal-detectors wands are to be avoided. (Alternative searches can be a pain but better than a trip to the hospital.)
    Dave, magnet fields would deprogram. Electric shocks might do more harm. I don't truly know. I'm speculating as there are electronic components which react to voltage changes instead of current. And there are electronic components which are sensitive to current, in minute amounts. I have no idea how well the manufacturers shield their equipment from such everyday hazards. I have no idea if they design them to withstand a Taser. I'd like to think that they can and do, but I'm skeptical.

    Maybe somewhere in our group we have a biomedical engineer or pacemaker manufacturer's engineer who can answer.

    These devices seem quite robust, but ....

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Gulf Coast of Florida
    Posts
    9,141
    In the heat of the moment, with stress and the speed at which the situation unfolded, you were threatened and assaulted and you saw the attacker had a weapon in his hand that you believed to be a gun and you were genuinely in fear for your life.

    Period.

    Repeat exact statement as needed and say nothing else.

    Consult a lawyer.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  16. #15
    VIP Member
    Array DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Posts
    5,036
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I have no idea if they design them to withstand a Taser. I'd like to think that they can and do, but I'm skeptical.

    Maybe somewhere in our group we have a biomedical engineer or pacemaker manufacturer's engineer who can answer.

    These devices seem quite robust, but ....


    I agree, absolute!

    BTW -- I wonder if a Taser or Stun Gun has a more jolt that a auto defibrillator? Anyone have a clue?
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Stun Guns don't work!
    By Bunny in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: January 26th, 2010, 08:55 PM
  2. Taser's and stun guns: Cross contamination?
    By limatunes in forum Related Gear & Equipment
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: August 18th, 2008, 12:15 PM
  3. Good place for stun guns
    By Shadowsbane in forum Defensive Knives & Other Weapons
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: April 4th, 2007, 03:19 AM
  4. stun gun
    By Maverick7340 in forum Defensive Knives & Other Weapons
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: December 1st, 2006, 05:54 PM
  5. STUN GUNS TO QUIET THE CROWDS En Masse
    By QKShooter in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: May 16th, 2006, 07:56 PM

Search tags for this page

guns and pacemakers
,
pacemaker stun gun
,
pacemakers and stun guns
,
stun gun affect on pacemaker
,
stun gun and pace maker
,

stun gun and pacemaker

,

stun gun pacemaker

,
stun gun vs pacemaker
,

stun guns and pacemakers

,

taser gun and pacemaker

,

taser guns and pacemakers

,
will a stun gun kill someone with a pacemaker
Click on a term to search for related topics.