Church shooting scenario

This is a discussion on Church shooting scenario within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by tacman605 Chiefjason brought up a good point do you think about where you are sitting and position yourself for a tactical advantage? ...

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Thread: Church shooting scenario

  1. #31
    Ex Member Array EB31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Chiefjason brought up a good point do you think about where you are sitting and position yourself for a tactical advantage?
    All day, everyday. No matter where I'm at. It's been so long, I honestly don't even think about it anymore. It's become second nature. whether it's a restaurant, IHOP, church or the public library...I always gravitate to the seat that gives me the best vantage point of access points and everyone around me.

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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array Ragin Cajun's Avatar
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    I can only speak for the church I attend. We have a well armed security team that trains alot. If Joe Blow jumps up, pulls a gun and starts moving through the church; if he is encountered by someone armed on the security team and they don't know he is not the shooter, Joe Blow is more then likely going to get shot. Our security team is there to address these situtations until police arrive. I would suggest you find out if your church has a security team and an active shooter plan. We try to find out who carries and when we know of someone who does, we ask them that they take care of themselves and their family and not to get involved if they don't need to. I know a lot of you don't want people to know that you carry but if you are going to carry in a church that has a security team, it may save your life if they know. Our teams stance is that we wished everyone carried, we are not in anyway against it but if something happened, we don't want any friendly fire accidents. Our plans have been approved by our leadership and insurance company.

  4. #33
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    I carry at church as it is legal in FL. In the proposed situation, I would try to get to a position of some cover while being able to scan the direction the gunfire seems to be coming from. My wife would be either behind me or as physically covered as I could do and still return fire if threatened. I carry to defend my wife and myself from an immediate threat. The police having been called just makes too many possibilities for mistaken intentions. I could foresee general and localized panic, adult and children. I have no intention of adding to the mix.

  5. #34
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    I'm sitting at the back and am out the door while people are still wondering what is happening. Move quickly at low ready towards the sound and do what has to be done. There are probably other carriers, they will either be ahead or (likely) behind me. Identify and neutralize, holster, then wait for the calvary to arrive.

    Our church has ~100 at service, several rooms of kids in a different wing. No security team or plan, but it shouldn't take too long to tell the good from the bad, especially since you know/recognize most of the people.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  6. #35
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    John find those other carriers and talk it out. If nothing else so everyone knows who is who if something should happen.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  7. #36
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    No one knows I'm carrying there- it doesn't take permission, but they could post it if they decided they didn't want it. There was talk of starting a security team, but it was not going to be an armed one. Without some indication they would positively react to organizing concealed carriers, I'm not volunteering my status.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    the police have most likely been called, and YOU are planning to move around that church armed.
    This is not going to go well when the police arrive. I would probably remain concealed as I slowly tried to investigate, and if possible, I would want to be on the line with 911...that could be of great assistance to my well-being.
    Another matter would be other CCW permit holders who have similar intentions as mine...
    This would be my chosen option as well. I will certainly go check it out but I am not drawing until I get closer to where I heard the shots coming from. We have Sheriff's deputies in the church and they all know who I am. I also know many of the Deacons, and they know me.

    I can legally carry in church in TX as long as it isn't posted with 30.06, and mine isn't. No one other than my Wife and kids know I carry, I think some suspect it but it has never been brought up.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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  9. #38
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    Here is my suggestion- ask the Lord for help and wisdom. Children are in danger in their Sunday school classrooms? What would Jesus expect you to do? Help them. Now, here is where the Christian commitment comes into it. I am not an expert in gun fights or tactics. I am sure we will be unprepared. I am sure folks will panic. I am even more sure that Christ expects me- and others- to TRY to do something, to the best of our limited skills. But we will ask for His help, and with that hope proceed. I probably would keep my gun in hand in my coat pocket, so as not to present a frightening image, or get shot by somebody else. I have no idea what will come of this. But proceed we must. "No greater love than this.."
    Remember WHY we are in church in the first place.
    God Bless
    Six for sure...Uh, I mean Five. Five for sure..

  10. #39
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    Our church is a large church about 7000 members. Because of our size we plan for all emergencies from medical emergencies, lost or missing children(locking down the building) to active shooter situtations we are obviously near a metro area including the chief of police as a church member. About two years ago several carry permit holders, active and retired LEO folks got together and looked at an active shooter situation at our church. First thing we did was modify access to our preschool (first floor)and childrens areas(second floor) all access is now through one set of doors. We then looked at what would be needed to stop a threat. We then determined it would take 2 three man teams to properly clear our church. We would stage two additional people at the Childrens and preschool area doors to secure that area basically active shooter has to get past them. The other questions we addressed were how would we communicate such a event so team members knew what is happening and identification so we are not shoot via arriving police. Our solution for this was each Sunday, team members check in and are either pick or assigned a job clearing or defensive stance. We also pickup a walkie talkie, master key to building so no door is locked while clearing the building for them to hide and a ID badge identifying us as part of the church security team. Its not perfect and we realize it but at least it's a plan and we dont have folks running around not knowing whom the good and bad guys are.
    The gun fight you really win is the gunfight you avoided.

  11. #40
    mkh
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    I know of a few other churches in town that have their own member security teams. None of the churches (mine included) are Islamic. One of the churches has a pastor that is very outspoken against Islam and started their team because they found a note threatening the pastor left on the pulpit

  12. #41
    mkh
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    I think you're reading too much into this...plus everyone's church is different in terms of size, physical layout, population, etc. What works for me will not work for someone else. I don't have a "team of 20"...I'm talking a group of 2-4 armed people (if everyone is there)...

    Not to mention, if you remember the last church shooting in Colorado...was stopped by a CCW holder...NOT a security guard.
    I agree that churches have different needs and you have to work with what you have. I was only trying to point out two things - 1) its hard to tell who the good guys are and who the bad guys are if you don't know everyone personally and 2) rushing to the scene of a shooting can leave other areas unprotected.

    I currently have 6 members on the team including one LEO. I would like to grow the team to 24 so that I would have 6 guys working each Sunday. that is 2 in the main service, 2 in the satellite service and 2 others patrolling the campus. I have H2H, defensive shooting and active shooter training lined up for the team as well as force on force training with airsoft weapons.

    I'm aware of the shootings in Colorado and how they were stopped. I have lots of research on this and if you are interested in starting a team in your church then PM me and I will be willing to share info.

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