Welcome guests that become unwelcome.

This is a discussion on Welcome guests that become unwelcome. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was pondering potential scenarios, and past life experiences the other day and it dawned on me that most of the defensive scenarios that are ...

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Thread: Welcome guests that become unwelcome.

  1. #1
    Member Array robinsonre's Avatar
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    Welcome guests that become unwelcome.

    I was pondering potential scenarios, and past life experiences the other day and it dawned on me that most of the defensive scenarios that are discussed start out as violent/semi-violent encounters. My personal experience has shown me that most violent encounters occur as the result of someone taking a normal non-violent situation to the extreme. I came up with a few plausible scenarios that I'd like to present here.

    I have my own ideas about how to solve these. They're based partly on my (limited) life experience, gender, size and physical ability. I'm interested to see how other members would solve the same issues.

    Scenario #1

    You and your spouse have just moved into a new house in a new neighborhood. Your spouse is out front gardening and you are puttering around in your garage. A neighbor comes by, introduces himself and your spouse invites him into your home, and introduces you. Once inside your home the conversation quickly changes to accusations from the neighbor about the "noise nuisance" from your house late at night. You attempt to explain that you are not playing loud music at all hours of the night, the sound must be coming from elsewhere, but the neighbor is having none of it. He becomes increasingly agitated and continually closes the gap between him and your spouse. He gets louder, more animated and occasionally throws in a profanity or veiled threat. After you request, and later demand that he leaves your home he refuses and becomes more agitated and animated. During one of his outbursts you notice that he appears to be armed with a large hunting knife in a sheath on his belt underneath a big shirt. He appears to be about the same size, age and physical ability that you are.


    Scenario #2

    You and your spouse are hosting a holiday party for a few friends and coworkers. You've had a little bit of alcohol, but are not drunk. A few hours into the party an animated political discussion between an elderly female coworker and a younger male acquaintance escalates. At first to jokes and snide comments, and eventually to full on shouting. Attempts to break up the conflict and ask either (or both parties) to leave are ignored. Eventually the argument becomes physical when the female coworker slaps the male acquaintance and he begins to physically retaliate. You do not know if the elderly female coworker is armed, but you know that the younger male acquaintance always has a gun on him, or nearby. Once again, you believe that the physical capabilities of the male acquaintance are approximately on par with your own, while you greatly outweigh/outmatch the female coworker.
    "Life exists at a level of complexity almost beyond our ability to comprehend. It's a well known fact that if you try to take apart a cat to see how it works one of the first things you have on your hands is a non-working cat" - Douglas Adams

    "All things are governed by law" - Hippocrates

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    #1 Strangers do not get invited in the house, new neighbors or not. This discussion would be outside. If it get ugly we go in the house, without him. IF necessary the police will be called. Any assaultive behavior will be dealt with.

    #2 I have hosted quite a few parties where most of the people were armed. It was just like Tombstone, you check your hardware when you arrive and get it back when you leave. Peer pressure enforced the rule. Beyond that, my house, my rules, you don't like them you are free to leave. IF you don't leave voluntarily, you will be assisted.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Depends on your state laws. In NC you can use any force necessary up to but not including deadly force to remove a trespasser. If the trespasser becomes a deadly threat then deadly force is justified.

  5. #4
    Ex Member Array EB31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    #1 Strangers do not get invited in the house, new neighbors or not. This discussion would be outside. If it get ugly we go in the house, without him. IF necessary the police will be called. Any assaultive behavior will be dealt with.

    #2 I have hosted quite a few parties where most of the people were armed. It was just like Tombstone, you check your hardware when you arrive and get it back when you leave. Peer pressure enforced the rule. Beyond that, my house, my rules, you don't like them you are free to leave. IF you don't leave voluntarily, you will be assisted.

    My response would echo Guantes' reply to a T.

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I don't invite strangers into my house,and no alcohol is allowed,I don't throw parties
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    It's funny, I dont invite strangers in/over either. Friends, yes. 'Acquaintances' only rarely. I'm a bit paranoid that they'll tell 'friends' of theirs that are meth heads or similar that will then come and rob me. I have an extremely cool home. Unique (but not fancy). And it's rural.

    Thing is...I have little to steal. Almost no electronics...my TV is 13 yrs old, for ex. I'd be alot more upset if they broke into my garage where I have all my farm stuff stored. And my locked tack room is inside there.

    Got alcohol tho, lol. Gotta say, we do like to kick back and relax.....and that's all friends visiting ever amount to happily. (Goes back to my keeping my opinions to myself sometimes, as well as my gun).

    If potentially violent issues arise in my home, I will be as conciliatory and diplomatic as necessary to get rid of them. If someone already knows where I live, I dont want them coming back pissed off. I will threaten (and do so if necessary) to call 911. I would have mediated any truly heated discussions before they got really nasty....or asked them to leave.

    I moved out here for peace of mind and peace and quiet. I wont let my ego get in the way by creating a more inflammatory situation. OTOH, I wont let them think there's easy pickin's here either. Casual references to a shotgun may happen (altho I dont own one).

    So I guess my answers are in bold.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    At the very 1st sign of trouble, they will be told to leave and my family members will be removed from the immediate area. If they do not leave immediately, they're tresspassing and 911 will be called right in front of them. If they advance, I'm OC spraying them. The situation would play out accordingly from there.

    I've had a number of parties in the past and I've learned the hard way that at the very first hint of attitude from someone or issue between a couple folks and either they're off the property or the party is over and police will be called. Nothing good is going to develop from it and it will bubble over with time and alcohol. It's amazing when something goes down at a party at your house and you yell "that's it, everybody out now or the cops are being called" how people seem to cut a trail in a hurry. If I'm at someone else's house at a party and there's the 1st hint of attitude or issue with or between others, I'm out. Again, nothing good going to come from it and I'm not hanging around.

    I don't do parties anymore. I don't have 'em and I don't go to 'em (other than my young kids birthday parties). I occasionally have 2 or 3 close buddies over to shoot pool in the basement, but that's it. And those are guys that we all work together, work on cars together, go shooting together, eat breakfast together every morning, usually lunch every day together...when I say close buddies, I mean people I have worked with all day long for many years and trust my life with. I talk with my neighbors outside.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
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  9. #8
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    Now I have invited neighbors with length time in the neighborhood into my home. If one were to become animated, aggressive, and threatening in my home, he'd be asked to quickly leave while I dial 911. If he doesn't get THAT hint, he'd be looking at my Glock 'escort assistant'.
    Do not screw around inside my home.

    Parties, young people, and guns...bad combination. When trouble starts here, someone is going to jail...it's always fun and games until the cops show up.
    My years are far beyond those kinds of parties, but my advice would be to remove my family and friends ASAP and call the police. When you remove the audience, the trouble may subside on its own.
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    #2 I have hosted quite a few parties where most of the people were armed. It was just like Tombstone, you check your hardware when you arrive and get it back when you leave. Peer pressure enforced the rule. Beyond that, my house, my rules, you don't like them you are free to leave. IF you don't leave voluntarily, you will be assisted.
    It seems so many have a problem understanding that simple rule. One's perceived "rights" don't trump the homeowners' rights.

    Guantes, do you have the cute little "gun check" girl to secure the firearms?
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    #1 Strangers do not get invited in the house, new neighbors or not. This discussion would be outside. If it get ugly we go in the house, without him. IF necessary the police will be called. Any assaultive behavior will be dealt with.

    #2 I have hosted quite a few parties where most of the people were armed. It was just like Tombstone, you check your hardware when you arrive and get it back when you leave. Peer pressure enforced the rule. Beyond that, my house, my rules, you don't like them you are free to leave. IF you don't leave voluntarily, you will be assisted.
    +1 for me too, this is the best way to handle it IMO.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    #1 Strangers do not get invited in the house, new neighbors or not. This discussion would be outside. If it get ugly we go in the house, without him. IF necessary the police will be called. Any assaultive behavior will be dealt with.

    #2 I have hosted quite a few parties where most of the people were armed. It was just like Tombstone, you check your hardware when you arrive and get it back when you leave. Peer pressure enforced the rule. Beyond that, my house, my rules, you don't like them you are free to leave. IF you don't leave voluntarily, you will be assisted.
    I have invited neighbors in my house when "I" was new to a neighborhood. (after they took time to bring me a house-warming present)

    I've also had a couple of parties where "friends" also brought "strangers". (boyfriends/ girfriends) I only had one instance where a fight broke out. But fortunately, when I was made aware of it, the participants both ceased their altercation. (I had a rep for being a pretty violent guy back then and no one dared pi$$ me off.)

    I can relate to the "gun" check. I was brought in to restore safety in a couple of bars back in the 80's. (One was a redneck joint and the other was a known biker gang hangout.) The first thing I did was institute a NO WEAPONS ALLOWED policy. Me or my head bouncer searched every male; and my gf or hostess searched every female. We would tag & check all weapons, then give them back if the patrons weren't overly intoxicated and had behaved themselves.

    Today, there in no alcohol allowed in my home that is not used for cooking. If I do have the RARE get together, its usually a small dinner or bible study.

  13. #12
    Ex Member Array Glocksin's Avatar
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    #1.Of course this person would not be in my house,but for sake of argument if they were,i would plant myself between me and my wife first thing,call police if he would not leave,and if he produced a knife i would produce a knife and a gun.

    #2.I would separate them and if the boy showed a weapon he would get knocked out then and there.

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