To anyone that CCW.....this is a MUST READ!!!!!! - Page 2

To anyone that CCW.....this is a MUST READ!!!!!!

This is a discussion on To anyone that CCW.....this is a MUST READ!!!!!! within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Interesting that they tried to use his training to paint him as bloodthirsty. Also, when I look through the chain of events leading to the ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array Ishmael's Avatar
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    Interesting that they tried to use his training to paint him as bloodthirsty.

    Also, when I look through the chain of events leading to the eventual use of force, I'm struck by this: "On the 15th, the women had argued – not in person, but by cell phone texts that included nasty name-calling."

    A CCWer has to know to be on guard against getting drawn into confrontations by hurt pride, etc. Interesting to think about how someone close to you could trigger the same outcome, even delayed by a few days, through a non-face-to-face confrontation. Something to discuss with close family members?


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Wow!!! An absolute nightmare for the man and his family. That was a chilling read that is truly scary. I'm still shaking my head. The legal system was not at all concerned with the facts, the physical evidence, or the changing of the stories. Justice isn't blind, it seems to have tunnel vision obscured by the overwhelming desire to win even if it isn't accurate.
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  3. #18
    Distinguished Member Array mr.stuart's Avatar
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    I wonder if Mrs. Hickey's cell phone 'text fight' with one of the attackers might mean there was more to the story.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    Should have punched out the sisters as soon as it became physical. You bring it to me, you get it back! I've seen plenty of things go funny in a court room, glad it finally worked out the way it should.
    Hiram25
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  5. #20
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    Wow, just wow. The justice system certainly failed him. It seems like poor investigative work up front caused all the issues. 3 "victims" with inconsistent stories should of been the first clue. How could the detectives not take a statement from him? That just seems so wrong. Just glad he was able to be triumphant in the end.

  6. #21
    Member Array bruce21b's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.stuart View Post
    I wonder if Mrs. Hickey's cell phone 'text fight' with one of the attackers might mean there was more to the story.
    ya' know, i was wondering about that too........i wish they would have told what the texting fight was over.....not that it justified the assault on the Hickeys, but i would like to know, too

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array CCWFlaRuger's Avatar
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    It is very unnerving that the "antis" in the prosecutors office wound up being almost as dangerous, if not more so, to this man than the 3-1 attack that precipitated the trial.

    As far as not drawing, I see him as having no other choice in the situation. However, If he had been ready with a less than lethal alternative, ie. pepper spray, or a stungun, things might have ended quite differently, though, I'm not sure of the laws in Arizona relating to these weapons. I do know that they are legal here in Florida and I am now more interested in aquiring them as an alternative to deadly force.

    I don't want to shoot anyone, as I'm sure that most here agree with, but I'm also not affraid to defend myself and my family. As with any job, it would be easier, and safer, with all the right tools onhand... just something to think about.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCWFlaRuger View Post
    It is very unnerving that the "antis" in the prosecutors office wound up being almost as dangerous, if not more so, to this man than the 3-1 attack that precipitated the trial.

    As far as not drawing, I see him as having no other choice in the situation. However, If he had been ready with a less than lethal alternative, ie. pepper spray, or a stungun, things might have ended quite differently, though, I'm not sure of the laws in Arizona relating to these weapons. I do know that they are legal here in Florida and I am now more interested in aquiring them as an alternative to deadly force.

    I don't want to shoot anyone, as I'm sure that most here agree with, but I'm also not affraid to defend myself and my family. As with any job, it would be easier, and safer, with all the right tools onhand... just something to think about.
    +1. This affirms for me my practice of always carrying OC spray with my firearm. A couple shots to the girls when they jumped on them might have been all it took to get back in the house and call the police before the boyfriend got involved. The problem with this situation as I see it is the police and prosecutor had already decided who was guilty right off the bat regardless of any of the evidence. It just makes you wonder how often that happens.
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    +1. This affirms for me my practice of always carrying OC spray with my firearm. A couple shots to the girls when they jumped on them might have been all it took to get back in the house and call the police before the boyfriend got involved. The problem with this situation as I see it is the police and prosecutor had already decided who was guilty right off the bat regardless of any of the evidence. It just makes you wonder how often that happens.

    BugDude,

    I agree too about using OC spray.......

    but for me personally, i dont know where i would carry it..........i already have a gun, spare mag, phone, keys, wallet on me and feel like i need a cops duty belt to haul it.......edit: oh and forgot my Spyderco knife is also in the EDC gear

    and like you said, the prosecutor already had him convicted regardless of any fact

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    This poor man ran into the "perfect storm" of details to cause him such great problems.

    1. Lying assailants
    2. Emissions in the first report.
    3. Premature exercise of Miranda
    4. Mishandling of evidence
    5. Biased detective behavior
    6. An overzealous/ambitious anti-self defense DA
    7. Various unfavorable decisions by the judge

    The combination of these and other factors came together to create a situation of extreme difficulty in defending the actions of Mr. Hickey . Can/will it happen again, undoubtedly, but hopefully infrequently. JMO
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce21b View Post
    BugDude,

    I agree too about using OC spray.......

    but for me personally, i dont know where i would carry it..........i already have a gun, spare mag, phone, keys, wallet on me and feel like i need a cops duty belt to haul it.......edit: oh and forgot my Spyderco knife is also in the EDC gear

    and like you said, the prosecutor already had him convicted regardless of any fact
    I know how you feel, Bruce. For me, though, this proves how valuable the OC spray can be and I will make room for it at the expense of something else if I have to. Just imagine how much grief it possibly (no guarantees) could have saved Mr. Hickey and his family. If just one time in my life it prevents this kind of grief for me and my family, then it's worth it. It could prove more valuable than a knife. Perhaps find one that will fit in a mag pouch on your belt. I can't carry at work, so I keep OC spray and a FLB on me at work. Now, I almost feel like something more is missing if I don't have it than when I don't have my firearm (since I spend more waking hours at work unarmed than anywhere else).

    This was a chilling and sobering read...something I hope none of us ever come close to going through. There were no winners here as he still went through hell and the BGs got a wad of cash out of his insurance company and they attacked him. There's something terribly wrong with the system that results in them getting $100K for committing a violent crime against a person in his own yard. He gets jailed, banished from his house, runs up enormous expenses, and still has to look at them across the street. I think I'd have had to move.
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  12. #27
    Senior Member Array Tala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    +1. This affirms for me my practice of always carrying OC spray with my firearm. A couple shots to the girls when they jumped on them might have been all it took to get back in the house and call the police before the boyfriend got involved. The problem with this situation as I see it is the police and prosecutor had already decided who was guilty right off the bat regardless of any of the evidence. It just makes you wonder how often that happens.
    It happens AN AWFUL LOT in smaller towns. Ever been in a car wreck with a police officer's kid??? Boy, that's a PITA and you're (probably) not even facing jail time. (happened to an ex, not me, but I knew all about it)
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them. -- John Wayne as John B. Books in "The Shootist"

  13. #28
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    I"m sorry, but I REALLY suck at reading. I'd be here until atleast 1:30 am. Cliff notes? I'd really like to know what's going on.

    But by the posts made in this thread.... anytime a gun is involved, Police automatically assume they're the badguy. The general public and Police are brainwashed and trained to think this way. It's sad really.

    These kinda of cases happen a lot. Good shots are always being thrown in jail for protecting themselves. I guess it's a risk we're all willing to take in order to stay alive. On the other hand, I see a lot of stories where police get a straight honest story from the cc victim and everything turns out great. We're all told not to talk to police, but sometimes it just depends on who that specific officer is. Some may not like the idea of cc and can't make it very rough for you responding to this call. Whereas other officers are actually fond of cc and can make it rather easy for you. And what you say to the Police matters ALOT in court, so it just depends on the specific officer(s) on the scene.

    If I don't get cliff notes, maybe I'll find time tomorrow to read through it.

    If I ever have to deal with a situation like this, I wonder how difficult it is to get Ayoob on your side. Is he just a phone call away?

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I believe that there have been sufficient threads here to rebut the presumption that the police are brainwashed and automatically assume that someone who shoots in self defense is the bad guy. There may be areas where that is true, but it is far from universal.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glocksin View Post
    Yes,i see no reason for drawing here.Although,hell,i wasnt there.Popped the girls in the throat and laid that guy on his back.
    I guess you've never been in a fight or been in a fight against more than one person....sounds good on the internet, doesn't work so easily in real life. These "neighbors" were playing for keeps; the victim had no other recourse.
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