December 11th, 2010 12:47 PM
No, it never was. Because justice, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
Originally Posted by GlockJS
That's why, despite how bad our system is, vigilante justice is never (or should I say rarely) the right thing to do.
"I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."
December 11th, 2010 02:32 PM
To get an idea how officers generally think in that city go on Youtube there are plenty of examples. It's like they wipe there bottom with constitution everyday. I'm not saying all. There are alot of civil disobediance activist there who challenge them constantly.
Last edited by ccroom; December 11th, 2010 at 02:33 PM.
"You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." - Admiral Yamamoto
March 31st, 2011 02:11 AM
Originally Posted by Janq
Ok, sorry in advanced i did not read your entire post, but i just have to say "hindsight"
it's so easy to say from this side of the line, given now that you know all the details, what you would have done... given you knew all of the details before they happened.
but he didn't, he couldn't have.. he is not a time traveler.
Now this isn't regarding your post, but more directed towards others. If everyone had read everything in that document and understood it fully they would realize that he tried to retreat, several times. When he drew, there was no option for a defensive display, which was shown in the fact that he fired at a very close proximity.
I'm pretty sure, as a reasonable person, in that situation, that I would have only considered the following items.. as quickly and efficiently as possible: 1) Am I on my property.. ding yes 2) am i getting my butt handed to me, ding yes 3) am i out numbered, ding yes, 4) am i now in a position where i might lose control of my weapon, ding yes, 5) if all of the above happen, could my family be killed.. ding, yes.
all of you guys out there that would have taken the high road.. well, you would have been seriously injured or worse, dead.. paralyzed, family dead.. it wasn't a question of weather or not to use deadly force at that point. Thankfully the laws in AZ have changed recently to put the weight on the prosecution side in these cases, rather then on the defendant.
sorry for ranting on, this is my first post, i've been lurking for a while but this one just got me a little stirred up.. gray area, sure.. but being dead in my driveway or spending a few years in jail as a result of protecting my family.. better.
this was a good read, but has already been discussed in this document: http://www.azdps.gov/Services/Concea..._ccw_legal.pdf
which is also a good read.
 i hate to say this but for those of you that say that he should have just put them all six feet under, as to avoid any conflicting stories.. i say, thank god they all lived, and the situation was diffused.. sure it costs hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees, but those three people are alive today, you can't put a price on someones life.. the threat was neutralized, the situation ended.. people got hurt, but nobody died. Sure, in some circumstances the BG needs to die to save your life or your loved ones, but i think this was a win win win for everyone involved. [/edit]
March 31st, 2011 09:48 AM
Not everyone is skilled enough to take on three people with their hands. OC would have been perfect for this confrontation.
One more step and it's on!
March 31st, 2011 12:11 PM
even a skilled person can be blind sided by a third person while trying to fight two people already.. i agree with most people here when they say, i would have beat the crap out of the two girls as i realized it was getting out of control and i was at risk... but i also start to think that when the cops showed up he would have went to jail anyway for assault.
Originally Posted by dripster
March 31st, 2011 03:10 PM
I can understand the police suspicion as they arrive to a scene with un-armed, people bleeding from gun shot wounds and he admits he is the only shooter.The only one with a weapon. In the photo taken shortly after the incident he didn't appear to have any nicks or bruises. It doesn't appear he had been in a fist fight at all.
I believe pepper spray would have been a better choice. I also believe they may have been able to avoid the entire confrontation by just not responding to them.
"Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"
March 31st, 2011 11:05 PM
After reading the article and the replies to the thread here are my comments.
1. Something more than what he article talks about (Text argument?) led up to this situation.
2. I can understand his use of deadly force. Disparity of force is real. I think the shoot was good.
3. I would agree that just because the first two aggressors were female does not mean that Mr. Hickey should have not fought back with all the force necessary when they attacked his him and his wife.
4. The cops where he lives are either incompetent or actively disregarded the evidence, or both. It is Pima County after all. The same county where the sheriff made the stupid comments after the Congresswoman Giffords was shot.
5. The replies of some of our members shows a complete lack of understanding of the actual dynamics of a fight where the disparity of force factor comes into play.
6. We seem to have several members who are either trolls or have a real Gecko45 mentality and that is really too bad.
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