fence

This is a discussion on fence within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If you are standing behind a fence line, and a person draws a knife or club, but does not begin climbing the fence or trying ...

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Thread: fence

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    fence

    If you are standing behind a fence line, and a person draws a knife or club, but does not begin climbing the fence or trying to break through it, but they are still acting threatning and threatning to kill you, are you still justified in drawing if you do not shoot until they begin coming over or through the fence?
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    Member Array Bigkahuna's Avatar
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    How high and how sturdy is the fence??

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    Once they come over or through the fence they have shown the desire and ability for grave bodily harm or murder and I believe a reasonable person would conclude that deadly force would be justified.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Depends where you are.
    What is the local law?
    What kind of fence and how tall is it? If it is a three foot high split rail fence and he is arms length away from me, he is a threat. If it is a ten foot tall chain link fence topped with razor wire, not so much.
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    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    If you are standing behind a fence line, and a person draws a knife or club, but does not begin climbing the fence or trying to break through it, but they are still acting threatning and threatning to kill you, are you still justified in drawing if you do not shoot until they begin coming over or through the fence?

    I dont think so. You can be moving back away from the fence so that you have time to draw IF they do cross the fence. You can be maneuvering to cover them if they can use anything else (on your side) for cover. You can be calling 911.
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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    A standard 3'-4' fence, I would draw on them. They can always throw the knife, which is a lethal threat.


    ETA: Personally I consider calling 911 for befor the SHTF, of after things are over. In this case you are in the middle of it and it is not the time to be messing with a phone.
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    Member Array Bigkahuna's Avatar
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    Leave the area and call the cops as you're leaving.

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    A lot of in shape people can one hand vault a 3-4' fence and be on you befor you take two steps.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    7 foot tall iron fence with a magnetically locked gate, in this situation you are working as a uniformed officer, be it security or police, this is based lightly on a situation i dealt with a few days ago. This is not something happening off duty, or as a civilian. Consider that the subject is also hyped up on Ice
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

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    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    I think you got just about every answer and every question on this thread. Only the knife makes it more difficult because, as mentioned, it can be thrown as a lethal weapon. Common sense just says get away from the fence and call 911, even with the knife showing. This scenario is still, IMO, far from an "imminent threat" and showing your firearm is uncalled for. Many forum members seem to take a great deal of liberty with the term "imminent threat". To me it means that at that very moment I have no other choice but to defend myself from "great bodily harm" or even possible "death". I cannot run, I cannot hide, I cannot do anything but defend myself. If you have other choices, a firearm is not the choice.

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    I would not shoot through or over a fence at someone with a club or a knife. I would, however, begin to back up and leave the area. Then the aggressor must make his next move as I dial 911.
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    What he does on his side of the fence is his business (his turf, his castle). It's not mine until he crosses over. I'm sure every DA and jury would follow that same line of thought.

    Not if he pulled a firearm, the line of thought might change.
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    You can reason all sorts of technicalities here, but I would error on the side that they are not an immediate personal threat to me unless they breach the barrier, which shows an additional effort on their part to carry out the threat.

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    I draw in that scenario, back up and create space, get in house, lock door, and call police if at home.

    If away from home, I draw, create lots and lots of space, find cover. Use cell, call police.

    Over the fence they come? Neutralize. Throw the knife at me, neutralize. Those are clear.


    Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy: They have a club/knife - Ability; They openly state and threaten to kill you - Jeopardy;

    Now comes Opportunity: They are are behind a fence (how high? I assume 6 foot cedar for what thats worth) and within conceal carry authorization bubble (TX law). Opportunity in this case is a "fail" on shoot, IMO - unless hes reaching over the fence to throw the knife at you. He must show intent to get over the fence or throw over the fence to consummate Opportunity.

    I see every reason to justifiably and only draw from both legal and personal safety standpoints. (TX Law.) This is crystal clear to me.


    The fence height is a KEY variable the poster leaves out, IMO. The lower the fence (like a 3-4ft picket), the situation comes much more dangerous (hurdle, throw). This adds no more justification to the draw (you already have it), but adds much more credibility to legally justifiable neutralization.
    "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    As per the additional from the op, working as a uniformed cop, and the fence is seven foot. I would call for a backup and wait. He is going to jail or worse and his climbing the fence saves me doing it to get at him.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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