December 16th, 2010 09:00 PM
Maybe I can update this tomorrow after I talk to me boss in the mroning.
You are all right....something needs to be done. Now after a full belly and hindsight is 20/20....I won't let it go.
Plus the "talk" with the superintendent will get things...sorted out too.
December 16th, 2010 09:06 PM
Agreed with what others have said. I'd be mighty peeved if something like this happened to me. If I really thought it was the end and I wasn't armed (because I was on campus), then who knows what I may have done, if I figured I was "going down anyway." What if I had my knife with me? I am not a knife fighter, but if all other bets are off, I am going to at least want to leave a mark on the guy.
Extremely dangerous situation, not just for you, but for everyone else doing the drill.
December 16th, 2010 09:09 PM
I agree with the poster that mentions "what if you had burried a fire extinguisher in the side of his head." This could have resulted in someone losing their life all over a poorly planned drill. I hope the folks responsible realize the potential this held and make some changes. I appreciate you posting this. Something I would have never contemplated.
Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.
Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.
December 16th, 2010 09:33 PM
I will have to say that when I was part of a swat team, we did a few of these drills. They were done during the summer when school was out of session.
Everyone present was by "special invitation!" Yeah, we used about 40 or 50 students in the drill, but again, it was during summer break and done by special invitation only. The school district handled that aspect as far as which students were involved, and of course teaching and other school employee's again, all were by special invitation, so there would be no confusion as to someone "not getting the memo!"
Everyone participating staged outside the building and checked off on a sign-in sheet before being placed in their position for the role they were playing. School custodians swept the entire school and ensured it was secured before anyone was allowed in to start and all exits and entrances were "maned" by an "observer/safety" person, usually the school custodians.
While I was merely a member of the swat team, I was not part of the planning detail nor was I privy to all that went in to it. I know it was a big deal for the Sheriff and city Police Chief when putting this together with the school district.
After the fact, everyone participated in a common debriefing session on site before we went home. Then each area had a later debriefing with their specific people at a later date. Then all the information correlated for learning points and security issues for the school district as well as SOP's being developed for both the swat team and the regular road officers who would be responding to such an incident.
Too many things can go wrong in a poorly designed and implemented active shooter drill.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
December 16th, 2010 10:22 PM
Originally Posted by Janq
Originally Posted by azchevy
Originally Posted by MadMac
I agree,,NOT FUNNY,,,,,,,,,
Originally Posted by silo
^^^^^^^^^Till I read THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Here's their sign!
If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to defeat the British, He shot them!
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn
December 17th, 2010 12:37 AM
While I agree this was done incorrectly and is not a laughing matter I would like to address the issue of conducting the drill during school hours.
We conducted training in off hours as mentioned so our officers and those that would be responding to our city in the event of an emergency would be familiar with the layout of the various schools and to specifically work on tactics. Two to three times a year and in conjunction with school staff and their active shooter drill we would conduct a drill during school hours with the students present.
Policies differed of course but our schools would lock the classroom, turn out the lights, and gather students away from the doors. The SRO would play the part of the bad guy simply by being present in one of the classrooms. Officers and/or a tactical team would enter and clear the rest of the school while wearing full call out gear and having their duty weapons/rifles/shotguns unloaded, checked and taped prior to entering. At the conclusion of the drill the officers gathered in the cafeteria and met with the kids and often had lunch with them. This was at the elementary and middle school level. The high school level was done differently.
This showed the kids what was expected of them during the drills and what the officer would look like in gear as it would obviously be terrifying for the child, but again this was done in conjunction with ALL the school employees and they knew what to do and expect during the drills.
I do not agree with the use of blanks to simulate the shooting or the shooter running around with a weapon. The same training and outcome would be accomplished using a much more toned down method.
I am glad it worked out the way it did for you and no one was injured. They were lucky.
"A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013
December 17th, 2010 01:02 AM
+1 on the "not funny".
Sweet Lord! I would have...
Whew. I get the whole "train like you play" ideal but seriously, no other warning than an e-mail? That actor/LEO could've ended up with a new cranial orifice. Here in KY, we are allowed to carry onto school property as long as we are only picking up or dropping off. Feet on ground out of vehicle constitutes "conveyance onto school property".
If I had been sitting and waiting for my step-daughter and seen someone in civvies draw while making entry, I...
That which does not kill us leaves us broken and bleeding...
Donít mess with the guy who can barely stand up. His remaining options for self-defense don't include your survival.
Convenire Volui Spectatus
December 17th, 2010 01:13 AM
So wait...This is now the _second time_inside of year that the local PD, and the school admin., have oops my bad goofed up such a drill?!
Something here is all kinds of not right.
A sit down with your boss (principal) is in order.
Send these people else where for their field trip fun and 'exercises'.
Irresponsible...One day at this rate somebody is gonna get hurt, and then wind up in jail.
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
December 17th, 2010 01:27 AM
Well Frog, you had my heart all a flutter....your a pretty good writer I was right there with you!
Everything that I can say has been said, only thing I want to add is I'm glad your all right!
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
If not me, then who?
December 17th, 2010 01:51 AM
Bark'n said it very well, but also very short.
Janq's post are spot on and should be heeded as well. I see this drill as a HUGE FAILURE!
I'm not casting stones, or trying to point blame, but when an uninvoled party becomes involved to the point that they think it's real tragic results can, and often, occur. There are many reasons why a person, armed, may be in a school and not working at the time and yet be legal due to various laws. The stage for a disaster has been set. You yourself could've responded differently and injured, or even killed, what you believed was a real threat and I wouldn't fault you for doing so. Based upon your perceptions, and what you knew at the time you believed you were facing a real threat. Due to circumstances, that very easily could've been different you might have been closer to the attacker and felt that you needed to go "hands on" to survive.
I don't envy that you were placed in this situation. In fact I'm sorry that you were, as it's stress that you never should've expirienced. However, since you did go through this meat grinder, what did you learn from it? Take this fecal matter and turn it in to Lemonaide by trying to learn from it. Sometimes that's the best that one can do. Reaffirm what you think went right, and change what didn't.
December 17th, 2010 03:00 AM
I wish I could post the video from my work about the correct way to handle workplace violence.
1. find the nearest flower pot and throw it at the shooter.
2. Hide under the table and call 911.
3. Try and find the nearest exit and run out.
4. Turn off the lights and remain quiet.
5. make a loud noise and yell at the shooter.
6. Sacrifice your life by trying to overpower the armed employee and put yourself between the hostages and the shooter.
This is of course a summary. They actually had a video of a disgruntled employee with an AK-47 bursting into the office spraying the place. I can't find it anymore after I sent my comments on the video.
December 17th, 2010 09:48 AM
Well update. I had a sit down with authorties (bout and hour long), gave a statement, review of camera vids are being done. This is going under review of the school board, local police big wigs, superintendent.
I'm now out of the picture and the "higher up" are takeing it from here.
As it seems it is being taken alot more serously than I've let on here. I'm just trying to lighten the issue to help myself deal with it a bit better. I don't mean to mislead all of you with the way I'm informing you guys...actually it's helping me deal with it better, dumping on a forum to people I've never met.
I didn't sleep well last night. I've really, REALLY been reviewing myself on the reason for me to carry such a weapon, how it's deployment can have such a huge impact that it's hard to conceive it all. This incident has reinforced the resolve on why I carry, how far things can go so fast, and scope of which I now have on how far I will go to survive.
When I went into the class room yeeling call the police...I was listening for one more shot...I then was going to take some action....but at that moment I was aware that this event wasn't real .....but it was.
December 17th, 2010 09:59 AM
I appreciate how all of you have taken this seriously....really shows me the quality of this forum and it's members.
December 17th, 2010 10:45 AM
Dude... this IS serious. They screwed the pooch hard on this one and it could easily have resulted in a dead actor and jailed you. As it is the best possible outcome occurred and that still inflicted psychological trauma to an innocent. Being shot at and put in a position that incites stark raving terror that you are about to die is NOT something anyone should be subjected to.
Originally Posted by Frogbones
I would be FURIOUS.
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
You are not paranoid if They are actually out to get you, however, They probably are not and you probably are.
December 17th, 2010 11:23 AM
the best laid plans of mice and men....
wow...what an experience..unfortunate and a failure on the planners part...but almost fortunate other than the immediate stress that you had an opportunity to experience the feeling of helplessness and fear that you did...without harm....anybody else wouldnt have that opportunity until the real thing happened...you now have the opportunity to evaluate your reactions and tune what you need to in the event you run into a real crisis...
sounds like the organizers learned some valuable lessons and are taking the concern seriously...pretty sure theyll be more careful and diligent next time around...lesson learned the hard way...
glad you made it out ok...youve got an experience most hope they never have but at least youve come through it with no physical scars...
and i'm as curious as everyone else...what did you learn from it and how could you be better prepared?...
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