Store owner shoots and kills 3 robbers!

Store owner shoots and kills 3 robbers!

This is a discussion on Store owner shoots and kills 3 robbers! within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Check it out - even though he took a round in the stomach, this guy deserves HUGE kudos for his actions - fought his way ...

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Thread: Store owner shoots and kills 3 robbers!

  1. #1
    Member Array vashooter's Avatar
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    Store owner shoots and kills 3 robbers!

    Check it out - even though he took a round in the stomach, this guy deserves HUGE kudos for his actions - fought his way to a long gun using his pistol!

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/12/17...est=latestnews


  2. #2
    Member Array KTCameraman's Avatar
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    I just read about this incident in this morning's paper. They think there might be a fourth suspect that fled in a vehicle. Two of the perpertrators had been in the store acting like customers when the third entered with a gun drawn. Then, the two pulled their own guns and tried to subdue the owner and his wife. From what I read, his wife complained that the plastic ties they used to bind her hands were too tight, and when one of the robbers went to loosen them, the owner made his move. I was very impressed. There have been several robberies and muggings this week in Houston. I have been very aware of my surroundings when out and about, especially in busy parking lots.

    Last night I went to my friend's liquor store to buy some gifts for my bosses. It had been a couple of years since I had been in there so I inquired if he had armed himself since I last talked to him and he showed me his G19 in a holster on his belt....but to my horror, when he took it out to show me, I noticed that he didn't have a round chambered!!! He said he didn't feel safe with it chambered. So, after talking to him a while, we made plans to meet this weekend so he could practice shooting his sidearm, also so I can give him some pointers on concealed carry.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Nice shootin', Tex!
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  4. #4
    Member Array jerzsubbie's Avatar
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    Here are two more takes on the story.
    http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/...0031292634288/
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40713870...me_and_courts/

    The store owner was shot 3 times, is in critical but stable condition. The on article says there were shotgun slugs all over, but I'm unsure if they meant shotgun hulls.
    Regardless, good for the store owner for being able to pick the right moment to pounce and be successful!!!! 3 bad guys off the street for good!

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Like to know what caliber the BGs were using. Hit 3 times (shot placement!!!) and still very functional.

    Lasted 3 minuets...Another oddity. Usually over in seconds.

    WOW.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  6. #6
    Member Array gunsite's Avatar
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    you may cheer his actions, but tactically very risky. i wasn't there so there's no feeling for scenario, but base on printed info his was being tied up, so that tells he wasn't at a point where he was gonna be killed or a high threat of it. Being tied up, seems like the bad guys intent was to secure the occupants and take what they wanted, unless words were exchange that the situation was gonna turn real bad. The point i'm trying to make is there's nothing in a robbery (cash..items) worth dying for. This guy was up against three targets, (don't know positions of bad guys) very high risk even for someone who's very good in tactical situations. Do not let emotions dictate your reactions, when your getting rob your emotions can turn to anger by the thought of someone robbing you, if you have a tactically sound response, then take it, just make sure your willing to risk your life. This guy was shot in the gut and could of died, or might not of made it as of yet, then the debriefing will determine if his actions were worth. We all stand up and cheer when a robbery gets retaliated by gun toting store owner, the simple thought of someone fighting back feels good, when the store owner shoots and kills the bad guy... we feel even better. Make sure your actions are sound... and necessary at the moment, and that your willing to put your life on the line for the cause, other than ANGER/emotions. Anyone here or know of the condition of the store owner??

    Merry Christmas... and happy holidays

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunsite View Post
    you may cheer his actions, but tactically very risky. i wasn't there so there's no feeling for scenario, but base on printed info his was being tied up, so that tells he wasn't at a point where he was gonna be killed or a high threat of it. Being tied up, seems like the bad guys intent was to secure the occupants and take what they wanted, unless words were exchange that the situation was gonna turn real bad. The point i'm trying to make is there's nothing in a robbery (cash..items) worth dying for. This guy was up against three targets, (don't know positions of bad guys) very high risk even for someone who's very good in tactical situations. Do not let emotions dictate your reactions, when your getting rob your emotions can turn to anger by the thought of someone robbing you, if you have a tactically sound response, then take it, just make sure your willing to risk your life. This guy was shot in the gut and could of died, or might not of made it as of yet, then the debriefing will determine if his actions were worth. We all stand up and cheer when a robbery gets retaliated by gun toting store owner, the simple thought of someone fighting back feels good, when the store owner shoots and kills the bad guy... we feel even better. Make sure your actions are sound... and necessary at the moment, and that your willing to put your life on the line for the cause, other than ANGER/emotions. Anyone here or know of the condition of the store owner??

    Merry Christmas... and happy holidays
    The trend of late has been if the BGs take you to a back room, your life is forfeit, doubly so if you get tied up. Waaaayyy too many robberies of late where the proprietors and customers were shot/killed after they complied 100% with the BGs.

    Me, I'm not gonna gamble on their mercy.

    This was not about defending his property, his wife was tied up, he was next.

    You sure you would roll over and do what you were told in the same situation?
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  8. #8
    Member Array jerzsubbie's Avatar
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    I'm with Sticks 100%. If I'm being taken into a backroom, I'm not going to be another execution story. If I'm taken to a backroom, to be tied up or not, I'm not going down w/o a fight!

    I think the store owner showed great restraint and thought out his actions very well! He didn't just draw like a fool the second he sw the 3 BGs draw on him; That would've ended in almost certain death. He waited until the odds were more in his favor, 1-on-1, was successful, then engaged the other 2 taking 3 shots in the process. IMO taking a few shots is expected when going 1-on-2, thankfully he'll survive. He took the calculated chance for the sake of saving his and his wife's lives.

  9. #9
    Member Array gunsite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    The trend of late has been if the BGs take you to a back room, your life is forfeit, doubly so if you get tied up. Waaaayyy too many robberies of late where the proprietors and customers were shot/killed after they complied 100% with the BGs.

    Me, I'm not gonna gamble on their mercy.

    This was not about defending his property, his wife was tied up, he was next.

    You sure you would roll over and do what you were told in the same situation?
    You see.. you put words in my statement... i never said ROLL OVER, I don't believe that property/cash by itself is worth dying for, by the printed words only... getting tied up seems to appear that the bad guys were interested in getting what they wanted and getting out... i don't know if words were exchange between the good guys and bad guys to think the owner/wife were about to die.

    I'M NOT SURE OF ANY PRINTED SITUATION/SCENARIO... body language, eye contact, movements, positions, environment/surroundings, and speech can dictated my tactics/actions, so printed scenarios are great for conversations/responses, only to a certain level of realism, some things can't be describe or felt.

    In the end every person has to make up their own mind base on their training and knowing their limitations, many times my post are to make people think, or re-think a situation, i don't like to hear someone dies protecting a few hundred/k's dollars or grocery items. If someone decides to take action base on principles alone then so be it, i don't, i take action base on tactics, NOT EMOTIONS.

    Its easy to say... if a guy comes into your store and pulls a gun and states " give me your money " would you shoot him in order to protect your property if you had a weapon.. words by itself and emotionally..YES. Tactically maybe NOT.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunsite View Post
    You see.. you put words in my statement... i never said ROLL OVER, I don't believe that property/cash by itself is worth dying for, by the printed words only... getting tied up seems to appear that the bad guys were interested in getting what they wanted and getting out... i don't know if words were exchange between the good guys and bad guys to think the owner/wife were about to die.
    Not so much put words in your mouth, as to summarize what I interpreted your meaning.

    I'M NOT SURE OF ANY PRINTED SITUATION/SCENARIO... body language, eye contact, movements, positions, environment/surroundings, and speech can dictated my tactics/actions, so printed scenarios are great for conversations/responses, only to a certain level of realism, some things can't be describe or felt.

    In the end every person has to make up their own mind base on their training and knowing their limitations, many times my post are to make people think, or re-think a situation, i don't like to hear someone dies protecting a few hundred/k's dollars or grocery items. If someone decides to take action base on principles alone then so be it, i don't, i take action base on tactics, NOT EMOTIONS.

    Its easy to say... if a guy comes into your store and pulls a gun and states " give me your money " would you shoot him in order to protect your property if you had a weapon.. words by itself and emotionally..YES. Tactically maybe NOT.
    But that is not the situation here. Again, wife tied up, he's next. Was there feeling and emotions contributing to his actions? Yeah buddy. Fear.

    Quote Originally Posted by gunsite View Post
    you may cheer his actions, but tactically very risky. i wasn't there so there's no feeling for scenario, but base on printed info his was being tied up, so that tells he wasn't at a point where he was gonna be killed or a high threat of it. Being tied up, seems like the bad guys intent was to secure the occupants and take what they wanted, unless words were exchange that the situation was gonna turn real bad. The point i'm trying to make is there's nothing in a robbery (cash..items) worth dying for. This guy was up against three targets, (don't know positions of bad guys) very high risk even for someone who's very good in tactical situations. Do not let emotions dictate your reactions, when your getting rob your emotions can turn to anger by the thought of someone robbing you, if you have a tactically sound response, then take it, just make sure your willing to risk your life. This guy was shot in the gut and could of died, or might not of made it as of yet, then the debriefing will determine if his actions were worth. We all stand up and cheer when a robbery gets retaliated by gun toting store owner, the simple thought of someone fighting back feels good, when the store owner shoots and kills the bad guy... we feel even better. Make sure your actions are sound... and necessary at the moment, and that your willing to put your life on the line for the cause, other than ANGER/emotions. Anyone here or know of the condition of the store owner??

    Merry Christmas... and happy holidays
    I went back and re-read your initial statement just to make sure I did not over-react or as you put it, put words in your mouth. I stand by my original response.

    IMO tactically advantageous options go out the window the moment you are about to be tied up/restrained, let alone herded off to a back room. Once you are restrained, you are 100% at the whims of the aggressor.

    Being a law abiding citizen, you are already tactically disadvantaged. A BG or 3 produces a weapon, you are even farther behind the curve. How many options do you think you have once you get tied up?

    Life aint Hollywood, you are not gonna wiggle out of your restraints, or get that knife out of your pocket or boot. And as I stated, based on the trend over the last couple of years, your odds of living are not good.

    For the average person, it is act now, or be a grass-eater and pray to what ever warm & fluffy deity you hold near and dear to get you and yours out of this unscathed. Remaining calm and studying the tactical situation, weighing your options...???

    I don't gamble on stakes this high ($20 is usually my limit), or rely on faith to get me through the day, nor rely on the good graces of others in regards to me and mine.

    The moment a person threatens my life or that of someone close to me, and I am convinced they mean it and have the ability and means to follow up on said threat, it's go time. Whatever conditions were implied with the threat mean squat.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  11. #11
    Member Array chiefneon's Avatar
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    Howdy!

    Final conviction at the scene for the bad guy's. Just wish the good guy had not been injured.

    "Happy Trails"
    chiefneon

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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Too many stories of goblins tying up their victims before they execute them. No back rooms, no restraints for me.
    The moment either of those arise, it is on. This is fear for life/great bodily harm.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

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    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    I'm with "almost" everyone here.

    I think the owner was ROT with his instincts and acted in the BEST POSSIBLE manner tactically. His wife was completely UNHURT in the exchange. This shows me calm & forethought; (and some help from almighty GOD).


    I believe these guys were "practiced".

    * Two BGs acted as customers and divided the attentions of the owner and his wife.

    * They allowed themselves to be seen & possibly recorded.

    * They also proved their willingness to KILL when they drew their weapons.

    * This allowed a third to enter the store & draw a weapon; while a fourth waited outside.

    * They then began to escort the owner and his wife to a backroom and tie them up.



    He was injured; and could've been killed. (Which I believe they were intending to do when they led the owners into the backroom and tried to tie them up.)

    You risk death in "ANY" fight. However, in situations like this, you risk death "IF" you do NOT fight.

    So-

    IMHO;
    "It's better to FIGHT and risk death; than to DIE without a fight."

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Many years of experiece has left me quite dubious about the benevolence of armed criminals, whose inclinations to violence and carnage can change in a split second.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  15. #15
    Member Array AZ Infidel's Avatar
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    In absolutely NO way would I allow myself to be put into restraint of ANY kind and put into a back room (you may also read that as EXECUTION room). It has been my experience after over 20 years carrying a badge that once in that room, the employees end up dead. Seen it more than once. A "typical" stickup is going to be in and out as fast as possible...tying up employess takes too much time, and unless your plan is to kill them beforehand, most punks or stickup crews who just want the money aren't going to bother with it.

    Obviously if someone has the means and ability to cause me death or grave bodily harm, I will use every tool at my disposal stop that from happening. If that means drawing on an already drawn gun, I will do it. It isn't my first choice, but after 20 years shooting competition, and surviving on-duty LF incidents, I have a reasonable expectation that I will prevail over your average street scum. It certainly wouldn't be like the streets of Tombstone in the 1880's, I would use or create any advantage I could including faking compliance to put myself in a better postion to surprise them with my weapon. But the reality is, once the fight is on, you better daggum well jump in with both feet and fight as savagely as you can.

    For many years tha mantra in some circles of the LE community had been...."Give them what they want.....blah blah blah". Well, that might have been vaild in a touchy feely world, but in the present day, real world, it sure seems that punks are much more likely to kill without provocation even if you are giving them what they want.

    Is it worth twenty bucks for me NOT to have to kill someone? Absolutely. Without a doubt.

    However...there's that word again...if I believe my life, or especially the life of my daughter or my wife is in danger (and honestly, I don't neccessarily mean mortal danger, but being hurt or sexually assaulted) there is absolutely no description to the barbaric savagery I would go to in protecting them. SO, if someone were trying to get my wife or daughter tied up in a back room...sorry to say, it is on, and even if it meant me sacrificing my own life to save theirs...okay, not a problem. I am the dad and husband, it's my job. I spent over 20 years wearing a badge having sworn an oath to protect people I didn't know or have an emotional attachment to.

    Now back to every day things...there are MANY MANY threads on just about every gun related forum about "What if you were in a store and thus and so happened??????" They almost always turn into peeing contests because one guy advocates a proactive shooting response, and one guy advocates being a good witness....on and on and on. Coward, wimp, mall ninja are al words that get tossed in.

    If I am in a store and something happens...honestly, I am going to be a good witness ESPECIALLY if my family is present. I am going to try to get them into the safest most well-covered postion I can and protect them from there. My wife is still a working cop, so we would obviously have an advantage, but there you have it. I am protecting MY family. IF and this is a big IF the subject appears to me, based upon my experience to start harming people rather than simply wanting the money, then I would most probably act...because dagummit...there's still enough cop left in me not to. The money in the register...that's his as far as I am concerned. The single mom working the register just wanting to go home to her kids, her life IS worth more than than. But here again is a trick bag...if my acting in her defense puts MY child in more danger...then I am sorry, but I have to protect my cub. It's a rock and a hard place all the way around...and honestly...not one you can say with certainty unless and until you are in that situation.

    If said subject wants everyone to get into a back room....then I am afraid his butt is MINE. I am not getting a bullet to the back of the head like a sheep leaving my daughter to be a victim. If it costs me my life to save hers while ending the threat...so be it. That is a price I am willing to pay.

    HOPEFULLY you are all aware enough of your surroundings and not texting, chatting on your cell, or living in "condition sheep" to wind up in a bruhaha like that.

    Off my soap box and sorry for rambling.

    Be safe everyone and MERRY CHRISTMAS.

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