What About Canines?

This is a discussion on What About Canines? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Gotya Ret...And in that moment it was then far easier and less time consuming for me to type out a quick reply (~10m effort) using ...

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Thread: What About Canines?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Gotya Ret...And in that moment it was then far easier and less time consuming for me to type out a quick reply (~10m effort) using a hypothetical.

    In your query toward a criminal making unlawful entry (matters not then that the burglar is a minor or teen), nope you would be clear as speaking generically toward laws.
    Criminal was not supposed to be there and was not invited...So as a result he pays a severe price.
    BTW literal loss of muscle tissue is not a joke either, this can and does happen with dog bites and attacks toward humans.

    Toward the Wal-Mart/parking lot scenario that too is very different than what I'd addressed in specific.
    Again speaking generally toward laws; No there would be no issue/problem...Although you would be best to have had witnesses seeing you being contacted by said persons with knives and even better yet the witness(es) overheard them saying threatening words to you as well.

    Because without as much then it's an easy to convert case of he said ('Can I bum a cig' or 'Do you have the time, Sir?') versus she said ('OMG he called me a [N word]!' or 'His buddy said give me all your dollars and dimes!').

    We have all seen this play out here too in various news reports where they have actually gone to trial.
    Further in our own lives we've heard or even seen first person cases of mis-interpreted statements result in one person acting extremely toward an item that otherwise to most might be deemed as minor or even a nothing at all.
    With introduction of lethal force including but not limited to use of canines, again speaking _generally_ by state laws, it is on the aggrieved to be able to establish that the 'threat' was in fact a threat.
    People are not allowed to go release dogs against people because they for example feel comfortable with a person in their vicinity or they didn't like the tone of their spoken words, or even say the words stated in specific (i.e. 'F you...You mother!'...Recall the very old sticks & stones rule).

    Again I would encourage folk to study their own state laws first and foremost.
    Like with most everything else regarding human beings and defense/offense, state laws & regulations do vary.
    While doing this also think to check state law precedent....As in past cases of note. Almost nobody has a unique unheard of situation, anymore.
    Last; Invest in personal liability insurance. I do not sell insurance and never have. I am though a HUGE fan of insurance as being one among various layers of _active_ means to preserve my own self & my possessions including my money, property and _time_.

    Do know and note I am not an attorney nor do I play one on TV!
    As _always_ do consult with an attorney toward anything and everything I or anyone else might state/advise via the we have no face and quite limited liability internets.

    My statements are my own and provided at best effort with no malicious intent.
    I very likely will be off if not out right wrong (!) as applied to any given _specific_ states laws and regs.; With exception of my current state of residence (MA) which following my own advice I have actively taken great effort to study and familiarize myself with as in detail.

    $0.02 Street

    - Janq

    P.S.
    My SN is one I've been using online for going on 20 yrs. now, pre-internet back to the BBS days.
    It's a nickname that an ex-GF used to call me back in the days pre-email when she'd leave me hand written notes at my work and on my car.
    Her specific definition though if I stated it would cause me to get forum demerit points.
    I started using it as my nom de plume because ~20 yrs. ago at a BBS as a SN in lieu of my own actual first name, so not being able to think of anything clever or cool after a few moments of thought I'd then figured ehh whatever use Kim's name for me and it's completely made up so odds of another duplicating it are low.
    The rest is simply two decades and very many post BBS to .web usage of same out of either habit, laziness or inability to think up something different. : p
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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  3. #17
    Member Array coolfrmn's Avatar
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    Personal feeling is. Too bad so sad for the BG that decides to attack with a dog by your side. He had whatever happens to him comming to him.
    Seriously, I wouldn't even try to give advise on this scenario. CALL your lawyer for that advise.
    You do have a lawyer's number don't you? If you have a firearm for defense, home or carry, then you need one. Same goes for having a trained dog.

    P.S.- give your best friend a few extra Scooby Snacks for a job well done.

  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    Very cool @ the name. I've always wondered about your name as well. I'm glad Ret asked you about it.

    I also enjoy your informative posts. Thank you for your contributions, they are greatly appreciated.

    God bless,
    DFG

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    I have used my trained dog (APBT) on more than one occasion.

    Two notables are:
    1. Helped a local TXPD track down 4 suspects through 100 acres of woods and down 1/2 mile of RR track; then held them until back up arrived. (22+ yrs ago)

    2. Run 3 crack dealers out of my front yard. (The dog did get a "BITE" out of one's a$$!) But, I called him off after a short chase and he knocked down the BG. (20yrs ago)

    On both accounts my dog was highly praised by the officers.
    The officer that responded to the crack dealer altercation basically said: "You should've just let the big dog eat!"

    On the occassion in Texas, my dog became somewhat of a hero around the local PD after he tracked down and held the four BGs. (The local PD had never seen "pitbulls" other than the ones that "thugs" owned.) We even did a few other training drills with the department and "Border Patrol" that showed how versatile a well trained APBT can be.

    One of my current APBTs alerted to an "unseen" prowler hiding in the woods. I sent him into the brush after I voiced a warning. Fortunately, the BG gave up and the dog did NOT bite. (A sign of a well trained PT dog is the fact they will NOT bite if the BG gives up.)

    My wife and I both have been in situations where the canine partner at our side enabled us to fully control a situation without further escalation. BUT!!! It takes a commitment of time and training from both the handler and dog to get to that level of trust and ability.

    However, just the presense of a med-large size growling/barking dog in you vehicle or standing at your side is enough to stop most would be BGs from approaching.

  6. #20
    Member Array JB-Norcal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Hey, I watch "Cops" and it's not always easy for the K-9 guys to call off their dogs. Might take you a while too.
    In reality, those commads to call them off arn't the right commands,

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    3 men entered the house thru the "open" and unlocked door ...... left that way by my Ex. I had 4 dogs. One of the guys pinned her up against the wall and began tearing her blouse off, informing her of what they planned to do. That's when the first dog rounded the corner, saw she was under distress, and sunk his teeth into the guy's testicles and would not let go. The other 3 dogs , went after the other 2 guys who ran for their lives. I think the one's future sex life, was left in definite doubt.

    Having a good dog = priceless.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
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    Have a wonderful male 2 1/2 yr. old German Shepard who patrols our house and grounds. He holds three titles in Obedience and is now going for his first in Tracking. He is extremely well trained. If a family member came under threat.....he would take care of business. If you've never witnessed what a GS can do to an adversary in mere seconds you would be extremely suprised at the level of damage and speed of destruction. And it all happens so fast, before you can humanly react, even while holding a leash in ones hands.

    Most people and LEO's only see what the dog is capable of doing to an individual with training equipment and padded suites on......it's an eye opening experience to witness the real event.........Terror Stricken would better describe it.

    Even in the Pacific during the war, dogs racked-up their own body count on the Japanese soldier.
    Last edited by xXxplosive; February 28th, 2011 at 07:35 PM.

  9. #23
    Member Array carguy2244's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Gotya Ret...And in that moment it was then far easier and less time consuming for me to type out a quick reply (~10m effort) using a hypothetical.

    In your query toward a criminal making unlawful entry (matters not then that the burglar is a minor or teen), nope you would be clear as speaking generically toward laws.
    Criminal was not supposed to be there and was not invited...So as a result he pays a severe price.
    BTW literal loss of muscle tissue is not a joke either, this can and does happen with dog bites and attacks toward humans.

    Toward the Wal-Mart/parking lot scenario that too is very different than what I'd addressed in specific.
    Again speaking generally toward laws; No there would be no issue/problem...Although you would be best to have had witnesses seeing you being contacted by said persons with knives and even better yet the witness(es) overheard them saying threatening words to you as well.

    Because without as much then it's an easy to convert case of he said ('Can I bum a cig' or 'Do you have the time, Sir?') versus she said ('OMG he called me a [N word]!' or 'His buddy said give me all your dollars and dimes!').

    We have all seen this play out here too in various news reports where they have actually gone to trial.
    Further in our own lives we've heard or even seen first person cases of mis-interpreted statements result in one person acting extremely toward an item that otherwise to most might be deemed as minor or even a nothing at all.
    With introduction of lethal force including but not limited to use of canines, again speaking _generally_ by state laws, it is on the aggrieved to be able to establish that the 'threat' was in fact a threat.
    People are not allowed to go release dogs against people because they for example feel comfortable with a person in their vicinity or they didn't like the tone of their spoken words, or even say the words stated in specific (i.e. 'F you...You mother!'...Recall the very old sticks & stones rule).

    Again I would encourage folk to study their own state laws first and foremost.
    Like with most everything else regarding human beings and defense/offense, state laws & regulations do vary.
    While doing this also think to check state law precedent....As in past cases of note. Almost nobody has a unique unheard of situation, anymore.
    Last; Invest in personal liability insurance. I do not sell insurance and never have. I am though a HUGE fan of insurance as being one among various layers of _active_ means to preserve my own self & my possessions including my money, property and _time_.

    Do know and note I am not an attorney nor do I play one on TV!
    As _always_ do consult with an attorney toward anything and everything I or anyone else might state/advise via the we have no face and quite limited liability internets.

    My statements are my own and provided at best effort with no malicious intent.
    I very likely will be off if not out right wrong (!) as applied to any given _specific_ states laws and regs.; With exception of my current state of residence (MA) which following my own advice I have actively taken great effort to study and familiarize myself with as in detail.

    $0.02 Street

    - Janq

    P.S.
    My SN is one I've been using online for going on 20 yrs. now, pre-internet back to the BBS days.
    It's a nickname that an ex-GF used to call me back in the days pre-email when she'd leave me hand written notes at my work and on my car.
    Her specific definition though if I stated it would cause me to get forum demerit points.
    I started using it as my nom de plume because ~20 yrs. ago at a BBS as a SN in lieu of my own actual first name, so not being able to think of anything clever or cool after a few moments of thought I'd then figured ehh whatever use Kim's name for me and it's completely made up so odds of another duplicating it are low.
    The rest is simply two decades and very many post BBS to .web usage of same out of either habit, laziness or inability to think up something different. : p
    How did you form this detailed legal opinion?

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