With regard to the AZ Shootings

This is a discussion on With regard to the AZ Shootings within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by AZ Infidel What's your point? The tragedy in MD is a whole different scenario from the one the OP posted, which was ...

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Thread: With regard to the AZ Shootings

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Infidel View Post
    What's your point?

    The tragedy in MD is a whole different scenario from the one the OP posted, which was the one I was answering. The shooting in MD happened while a scuffle was still in progress. Any officers rolling on this call would know an incident was IN PROGRESS, and may already know there is at least one armed subject. It may be a club known to officers in that district for having trouble. There are lots of what ifs and variables. I was answering a question about a singular incident.

    I have a pretty good handle on the way TPD and the PCSD would handle rolling up on a scene where the THREAT HAD SEEMINGLY PASSED and you have a downed subject and a person of interest standing with his hands up and holstered weapon. No professional officer will get out guns a blazin' in that case. I went to the same academy as those officers and worked for both departments during my career. I started with the city, then moved to county for 20 years before I retired. I know how they are trained.

    It will never fail to amaze me how many apples and oranges get compared in a pear orchard.
    Sorry, if you were answering only the OP... my reading of your post took it as general instruction in any or similar situations... Based on my knowing prior to reading, that you are LEO. In the scene of the OP, I would also reholster and allow ROs to sort it out.

    Not trying to compare apples and oranges in a pear orchard, I mistook your response as being within the general scope of fruit.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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  3. #47
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    I have come to a conclusion on this and other threads. My basic answer/reply is "whatever Guantes says". Do not know you, have never met you, but I read your comments, learn from them, and find them to be insightful, experienced, and filled with common sense. Your last reply says it all in one sentence.

  4. #48
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Thank You for the very kind words, they are appreciated. I merely try to point out what strike me as actions that, based on my experience, have a good possibility of providing as good an outcome as possible. I don't claim to always be right, but I believe that I am more often right than wrong. Thanks again.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Guantes has been there and done that and it adds to his credibility and insight.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

    http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

  6. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    The 2 people that did stop the shooter were unarmed and still managed to stop him....because of their proximity, courage, and the fact that he was reloading. No gun was needed.

    We here know how fast you can get off 33 or 31 shots....as a responder, to draw, positively acquire target, and make sure no one else gets into your field of fire....poor odds. I think most here would attempt to stop the shooter. I just dont think their gun would be the best tool. The cc'er that also responded seemed to realize this as well. Kudos.
    Good points. The mind and will to change the game in favor of what is just and decent is the best weapon. Sometimes it's a sheepdog situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    With due consideration to circumstances, a fast reholster can be as beneficial as a fast draw.
    The unlikely circumstances include Joe Zamudio's having a grasp of and releasing the safety of his weapon before recognizing that the the only weapon that he saw as a potential threat had the slide locked back - empty - and so leaving his weapon holstered and going hands-on to pin Laughner.

    But, in due consideration of someone intent to re-holster, can you cite a case of death or injury due to holstering too slowly? I ask because I read some of the famous and professional writers for us non-professional permit holders. A reluctant holster is usually best, some say. Would you agree?

    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    I have come to a conclusion on this and other threads. My basic answer/reply is "whatever Guantes says". Do not know you, have never met you, but I read your comments, learn from them, and find them to be insightful, experienced, and filled with common sense. Your last reply says it all in one sentence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Old School View Post
    Guantes has been there and done that and it adds to his credibility and insight.
    I concur and recognize Guantes as a welcome member and contributor to the forum and ask the above question to gain some of his insight.
    Last edited by Pistology; January 21st, 2011 at 07:45 PM.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  7. #51
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    First, thank you , appreciate the kind words.

    I am neither a researcher nor a writer so I neither seek or keep track of such things.

    I don't see a conflict between what the professional writers say, "A reluctant holster...", and my statement. If you notice the "With due consideration to circumstances..." I believe that they and I agree that you would prefer not to have your gun in your hand when LE becomes involved. My point being when you determine that your weapon is no longer needed, get it back in the holster, don't be diddling around. Even if you determine to wait until the units are sliding in to reholster, a fast reholster and hands up, would seem much preferable to be fiddling with it as LE alights from their vehicle(s). The reference to speed being the process of reholstering, not the appropriate time to reholster.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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