With regard to the AZ Shootings

This is a discussion on With regard to the AZ Shootings within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You're at this shopping centers as this terrible event takes place. You're close as the event unfolds and you have the capability to minimize this ...

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 51

Thread: With regard to the AZ Shootings

  1. #1
    Member Array Ski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    40

    With regard to the AZ Shootings

    You're at this shopping centers as this terrible event takes place.
    You're close as the event unfolds and you have the capability to minimize this attack.
    You're able to stop the threat and are justified.
    My question is, as this event is mass chaos and the speed of it, you have stopped the threat but now to primary responders you are ID'd as a shooter. So to the LEO's on here, what is the next move?

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    New Member Array creeker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    5
    I seen an interview yesterday with a witness that was there who was carrying, he did not draw his weapon. I have been looking on the Internet for that interview, but I can't find it.

  4. #3
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,165
    Quote Originally Posted by Ski View Post
    Your at this shopping centers as this terrible events takes place. Your close as the event unfolds and you have the capability to minimize this attack. Your able to stop the threat and are justified. My question is, as this event is mass chaos and the speed of it, you have stopped the threat but now to primary responders you are ID'd as a shooter. So to the LEO's on here, what is the next move?
    Pray that they don't shoot you.

  5. #4
    VIP Member
    Array Saber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Yuma, Arizona
    Posts
    2,592
    The interview was on 'Geraldo at Large' and the CC guy arrived while the perp was being subdued. He assisted from that point and lethal force was not needed. I’m sure a lot of us have already speculated as to how we would react, but it went down very quickly so forethought isn’t always a luxury. If any of us were to have engaged the threat then who knows? Maybe you have time to holster, or maybe you get shot by another good guy who arrives and thinks you’re the threat.

    I believe this shows that if someone is determined to shoot you, there is little that can be done.
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
    ~ Stephen King

  6. #5
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    14,637
    I don't thiink they're going to unleash a blaze of gunfire. Obey their commands and if necessary let the bullet examinations prove you weren't the shooter. The truth will set you free!
    Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  7. #6
    Member Array KimBobTex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    414
    DC thread link of CNN interview with CCW holder, Joe Zamudio that helped subdue Loughner, the shooter. I'm sure there are many more by now, just Google his name.

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...e-Shooter-Down
    Asked by a CNN reporter "What do you feel when you shoot a terrorist"?, the Marine sniper simply shrugged & replied "recoil".

    Now more than ever, we are at war on our home soil ... WAKE UP & arm our troops when they are on home soil!

  8. #7
    VIP Member
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NSA Headquarters
    Posts
    6,248
    I don't think that LEOs arriving will be any more dangerous that being in a gunfight. If the shooter is down drop your weapon and stand on it.
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference.

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,685
    The problem is that you may not hear the commands from the LEOs...nor will you necessarily even see them - you will be focused on the threat, you may be suffering from tunnel vision and/or auditory exclusion. That is the reality of life...friendly fire is a possibility...you have to decide if you are willing to risk it.

    That said, most LEOs are trained to recognize that there is always the possibility of a plainclothes officer, or off-duty officer, or CCW civilian, to be on the scene in such situations. Hopefully they will not come in with guns blazing - but will rather look at the totality of the situation, and act accordingly.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
    Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger LCP (2), LCR, Mini 14; Remington 870; Marlin 336 .30-30
    CT Lasers

  10. #9
    Member Array guardmt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    404
    If you did nothing, and after knowing the after math. Could you live knowing you could have saved those people and that little nine year old girl?
    “What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pike

  11. #10
    Member Array katmandoo122's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    326
    I resolved a couple of years ago that if I were in this situation, after ensuring my family was safe, I would do whatever was necessary to stop it. Seeing Christine Green's pictures only increases my resolve.

    I'm not encouraging others to feel the same way, but I am encouraging you to think about it and make your own choice, today, before the stuff hits the fan.
    Human Beings understand Reason, Compassion, and Dignity

    Predators understand Strength

  12. #11
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State of Discombobulation
    Posts
    5,254
    Quote Originally Posted by guardmt View Post
    If you did nothing, and after knowing the after math. Could you live knowing you could have saved those people and that little nine year old girl?
    Situations like this are dynamic and by the time you figure out what is happening the need for lethal force may have passed, as evidenced by the CCW Permit holder that was at the scene and helped to restrain the shooter.

    Thrusting yourself in to any lethal confrontation can have very deadly consequences for you. The good guys don't always win, and life isn't like the movies. As for living with yourself, you will live with yourself whether you act or don't. You may not like yourself after the fact, but you will live with yourself, trust me on that. When you see a scene like the one that happened on Saturday you will first have to Observe it, Orientate to it, Decide what to do, and then Act. Does that sound familiar? It's a loop.

    We can all have ideas as to how we will act, but to tell you the truth, we won't know what we will do until we do it. We can't go through life thinking that every shooting is another mass murder, like what happened this past weekend, as we may very well witness a LEO or CCW Permit holder stopping a violent felon. That would be a very poor time to automatically assume that it's another mass shooting and intervene using an approach that, while favorable to a situation like what happened on Saturday, would be very inappropriate in this new scenario.

    Remember, we have to Observe and then Orientate to the situation before we decide what we are going to do and then act. Most people, thankfully, have little to no expirience with such a scene. We can mentally rehearse such things, and I encourage everyone to do so, but seeing it firsthand is different from thinking about it. Also, there are very real cost to intervening, and the stakes are played for keeps where you don't get the opportunity to say, "Oops, I guessed wrong. Can we have a do-over?"

    I would urge everybody to be prepared but to also use caution on jumping in to "save the day". There is very little that seperates a Hero from a Zero. To try and use the death of Christina Taylor Green as a way to interject themselves in to a situation, if they don't know what is really happening is a road that will most likely end in a dead end.

    Biker

  13. #12
    Member Array Jet Doc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Georgia, USA
    Posts
    110
    Well said Biker. Amen!!
    Better to have and to hold, than to leave in the nightstand.....

  14. #13
    Member Array Blair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    45
    I agree with you Biker, Without the proper training you could get yourself in a jam. I guarantee stress will kick in in a situation like that, it happens to LEO who have milliseconds to decide on a recourse to a situation. Once you jump into a situation thats it, decisions have to be made by you and like Biker said its no "oops I made a mistake". Once the bullet leaves the barrel you can not call it it back.

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    821
    Quote Originally Posted by Ski View Post
    ... you have stopped the threat but now to primary responders you are ID'd as a shooter. So to the LEO's on here, what is the next move?
    I'm not a LEO, but, I suspect "unload in shorts", "drop the gun (if still out)", "hands up", and "be very, very polite to everyone".

    Do NOT, repeat NOT remove the gun from holster or wherever it is, if not in hand.

    If they come in while I'm still in combat mode, I suspect I'm toast.

  16. #15
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,165
    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    Situations like this are dynamic and by the time you figure out what is happening the need for lethal force may have passed, as evidenced by the CCW Permit holder that was at the scene and helped to restrain the shooter.

    Thrusting yourself in to any lethal confrontation can have very deadly consequences for you. The good guys don't always win, and life isn't like the movies. As for living with yourself, you will live with yourself whether you act or don't. You may not like yourself after the fact, but you will live with yourself, trust me on that. When you see a scene like the one that happened on Saturday you will first have to Observe it, Orientate to it, Decide what to do, and then Act. Does that sound familiar? It's a loop.

    We can all have ideas as to how we will act, but to tell you the truth, we won't know what we will do until we do it. We can't go through life thinking that every shooting is another mass murder, like what happened this past weekend, as we may very well witness a LEO or CCW Permit holder stopping a violent felon. That would be a very poor time to automatically assume that it's another mass shooting and intervene using an approach that, while favorable to a situation like what happened on Saturday, would be very inappropriate in this new scenario.

    Remember, we have to Observe and then Orientate to the situation before we decide what we are going to do and then act. Most people, thankfully, have little to no expirience with such a scene. We can mentally rehearse such things, and I encourage everyone to do so, but seeing it firsthand is different from thinking about it. Also, there are very real cost to intervening, and the stakes are played for keeps where you don't get the opportunity to say, "Oops, I guessed wrong. Can we have a do-over?"

    I would urge everybody to be prepared but to also use caution on jumping in to "save the day". There is very little that seperates a Hero from a Zero. To try and use the death of Christina Taylor Green as a way to interject themselves in to a situation, if they don't know what is really happening is a road that will most likely end in a dead end.

    Biker
    One of your best posts. Observe, orient, decide, act. Well put.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. What do you find the most frustrating in regard to CCW?
    By kobyashi in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 68
    Last Post: June 21st, 2010, 08:03 AM
  2. Regard for Human Life
    By Davensquirt in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: February 9th, 2010, 08:51 AM
  3. Shootings
    By 9 Micky Mouse in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: October 25th, 2008, 09:28 PM
  4. legal technicalities in regard to conversions
    By Risque007 in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: January 20th, 2007, 07:40 AM
  5. What to regard as needed -
    By P95Carry in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: September 8th, 2005, 02:01 PM