Police Officer pulling gun - Page 2

Police Officer pulling gun

This is a discussion on Police Officer pulling gun within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; PC §9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of ...

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 49

Thread: Police Officer pulling gun

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,828
    PC §9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force
    is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes
    of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by
    the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose
    is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly
    force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.
    Texas statutes say nothing about "lethal" or deadly force being required for the production of a weapon as a threat of force.
    Self Defense and use of force is covered by section 9.31, deadly force is not until 9.32.

    That being said, I do believe the LEO's get much more room for when and how they can deploy their weapon/weapons being that they are usually looking for the bad guys, and they need to have any advantage made available to them when circustances are unknown.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
    www.ddchl.com
    Texas CHL Instructor
    Texas Hunter Education Instructor
    NRA Instructor


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    7,863
    Did you ever see the video where an LEO asked a female LEO to "make sure he stays there (on the ground)", so she pulls her gun and points it at the guy.... he had tried to allude the police and ended up in a chase...... at which point the female LEO shoots the gun in the head . An ND of the worse kind. She didn't intend to shoot the guy and he was doing nothing but laying there on the ground, but she also had her finger on the trigger.... and was very "nervous".

    Watch, any good LEO will keep it to his side or angled slightly out in front of them.... but not AT someone unless a real threat is there (guy with a gun, etc). Bad is, pointing at people that have not demonstrated they are a threat at that point.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array dripster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    619
    That happened in California, a female CHP officer had her gun drawn and pointing at perp who was proned out on the ground, and AD occurs then she re-holsters as everyone looks at her and perp then gets cuffed. She merely missed his head by incehs.
    One more step and it's on!

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array Tala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Benton, AR
    Posts
    716
    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    You're actually covering quite a broad area.
    First, is the draw precautionary or prepatory. A couple examples are below.

    Precautionary - A furtive movement during a traffic stop that causes concern. In this type of draw often the weapon is often held beside the leg out of sight of the contact. Its purpose to to minimize the time required to bring the weapon into action, should that become necessary, without unduly alarming the contact.
    Perhaps it doesn't unduly alarm the contact, but I hafta say it's a bit alarming to drive past a traffic stop where the officer is doing this. Not that I think the officer will shoot me, but if the guy in the car warrants the officer to draw.... and after I pass I'm gonna be right in front of the driver......yeah. Not fun in the least.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them. -- John Wayne as John B. Books in "The Shootist"

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    Quote Originally Posted by Tala View Post
    Perhaps it doesn't unduly alarm the contact, but I hafta say it's a bit alarming to drive past a traffic stop where the officer is doing this. Not that I think the officer will shoot me, but if the guy in the car warrants the officer to draw.... and after I pass I'm gonna be right in front of the driver......yeah. Not fun in the least.
    I'm not sure what your specific concern is.
    Is it that the driver will take off and the officer will shoot at him, or just that the driver might take off behind you after you have passed?
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array Tala's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Benton, AR
    Posts
    716
    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    I'm not sure what your specific concern is.
    Is it that the driver will take off and the officer will shoot at him, or just that the driver might take off behind you after you have passed?
    That some jumpy driver might shoot me! or any of the above. Really, I just thought I wanted to get the heck out of there ASAP!!!!
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them. -- John Wayne as John B. Books in "The Shootist"

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    For the average person, I agree with the ASAP.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,756
    Over the years working in Newark NJ I've witness many situations where LE had drawn.

    -Man walking down the street when detective pulls up in car, comes out with gun drawn and lit cigar in mouth. Points gun and man, man drops to his knees in fear. Turns out it was the wrong guy.
    -Plain cloths detective crashes his unmarked car into an on comming car to capture an armed hold-up team they were following.....many guns drawn.
    -Officer climbs into residence window with gun drawn to arrest burglery suspect.

    Just a few...........

  9. #24
    Member Array AZ Infidel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    If I were to be stopped, it wouldn't bother me in the least for the LEO to unholster his fiream on approach. I understand the caution they must take. It's his pulling the trigger that I am going to object to!
    I like that one Vet....style points added to your man card!

    The reality of it is: Officers use their guns as "Threat Managment" tools. This is obviously in a situation as in a felony stop, stolen car, officer rolling into a violent altercation...etc...etc...etc... You would have (and sometimes even by policy be required to have your weapon in hand). This is actually where a civilian, at least under Arizona Law would be in fact guilty of brandishing at least, and assault with a deadly weapon at worst. So, the officer can and often will use his weapon in-hand as a tool to manage an encounter that he reasonably believes could turn violent, and very often the presense of his drawn weapon can and will defuse the situation until other officers arrive on scene, or the threat diminishes in the contact to the point where subjects can be secured pursuant to investigation and interview. It is a VISIBLE DETERRENT to continued non-compliance or violent assault.

    I used to work department-assigned and blessed off-duty shifts at Circle K Stores in the "garden spots of town". The company would pay off-duty officers in uniform to guard the store from 10pm-2am. The shifts were coordinated through a Sergeant, and we were paid pretty well (almost double time) for being there. I was working at a store on Grant and Oracle in Tucson on a Monday night. If you know Tucson, this is definitely one of the "garden spots" of Tucson. Crackheads and hookers outnumber the rats and cockroaches. Anyway...I was standing at the front door talking with an on-duty officer from the city, and a fight broke out at the Jack In The Crack next door. There were two car loads of subjects involved, nine subjects in total....and just the two of us.

    Both of us drew our weapons and we both called for other units to respond and crossed the parking lot. As my colleague was on-duty and in city jurisdiction, and in his assigned patrol sector, he was the lead officer. I was off-duty and serving as his de-facto backup. Anyway...we approached the subjects, weapons drawn and ordered them to stop. Being less than completely stupid and seeing two uniformed cops with weapons drawn...they STOPPED. Things were cooled off by the time other officers rolled in...a couple of the subjects were arrested on outstanding warrants. Most of the group went home, and everyone left unhurt. Threat Management 101. I have dozens if not hundreds more I could tell...this one comes quickest to mind though. The days of cops being able to brag they went through an entire career and never drawing their weapons is over. If you are that officer, you work a sleepy little town with one other resident, or you are a desk driver shuffling paperwork.

    The civilian has nowhere near that kind of latitude in drawing their gun. We could get into "Why are cops so special....etc...etc..." but Guantes covered that pretty well. It is not that we are special...it just is what it is.

    Lethal force and its usage for cops, in most places is just as stringent as it is for non LE (as it should be). Some places officers are held to even more strict standards. Some places, less...it just depends upon where you live (know your local laws...pay a few bucks to sit down with a lawyer who specializes in this type of law NRA can give you a name of someone).

    Recently Arizona enacted the "Defensive Display" law. In a nutshell, you may now show your weapon or verbalize that you have a weapon in order to avoid a violent confrontation. Now the catch is, you may not draw or point your gun, but you CAN uncover it and make ready to draw...but NOT if you have started the conflict and it is going badly for you and you are looking for a way out. You are also under NO compulsion to warn or display if you are in immediate danger of death or grave bodily harm (i.e. no warning is neccessary before using deadly force where deadly force is legally applicable).

    Anyway, I hope I haven't wandered too far off point. But there you have it.

  10. #25
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Hiding inside a bottle of Jim Beam Black.
    Posts
    17,312
    ^^
    I'll add them on ... when the wife gives it back to me. She tries to keep my chest-thumping to a minimum.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  11. #26
    Member Array AZ Infidel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    ^^
    I'll add them on ... when the wife gives it back to me. She tries to keep my chest-thumping to a minimum.
    I can empathize. My wife keeps my gonads in her purse next to my wallet, credit cards, and checkbook.

  12. #27
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Hiding inside a bottle of Jim Beam Black.
    Posts
    17,312
    You too!
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  13. #28
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    ky.
    Posts
    1,890
    If I were a cop in certain American cities I would prone out any one up too and including my mother at a traffic stop. You only get one chance of being dead.

  14. #29
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    1,786
    Over the years working in Newark NJ I've witness many situations where LE had drawn.

    -Man walking down the street when detective pulls up in car, comes out with gun drawn and lit cigar in mouth. Points gun and man, man drops to his knees in fear. Turns out it was the wrong guy.





    seems like the cop was preserving his image with the cigar, Detective Cool was on duty that day huh
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  15. #30
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    Reminds me of the detective in one of the Death Wish movies that always had the cigar butt in his chops.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Very Bad: Officer arrested for pulling motorists over, charged ‘roadside fee’
    By WhoWeBePart1 in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: June 3rd, 2010, 05:02 PM
  2. Ottawa Police Officer Murdered By Former RCMP Officer.
    By GunnyBunny in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: December 29th, 2009, 09:14 PM
  3. Woman arrested after pulling officer from wreck
    By mlr1m in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 66
    Last Post: July 29th, 2008, 06:23 PM
  4. NH police officer's gun discharges, bullet hits 2nd officer
    By paramedic70002 in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: May 4th, 2008, 07:03 PM
  5. Man shot after pulling gun in police station
    By paramedic70002 in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: January 27th, 2007, 07:49 PM

Search tags for this page

criteria for police drawing weapons
,
force continuum drawing weapon
,
is a police officer pulling gun a use of force
,
is pulling a gun use of force?
,
is pulling gun a use of force
,

officer force continuum hand on gun

,
officer pulling gun
,
police career never drawing
,
police justification for pulling gun
,
pulling gun on force continuum
,
texas police officer pulling weapon without cause
,
use of force continuum draw gun
Click on a term to search for related topics.