Police Officer pulling gun

This is a discussion on Police Officer pulling gun within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I watch the TV show cops quite a bit and I have noticed situations where the Officer pulls or doesn't pull his weapon and have ...

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 49

Thread: Police Officer pulling gun

  1. #1
    Member Array Pete14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    189

    Police Officer pulling gun

    I watch the TV show cops quite a bit and I have noticed situations where the Officer pulls or doesn't pull his weapon and have always wondered at what point does an Officer feel like he needs to pull his gun from his holster?

    If you are an officer at what point can you justify pulling your weapon? It seems like to me when the gun is pulled the situation definately gets way more intense.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member
    Array sigmanluke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    3,209
    Based on Utah law (other states may vary), as a Police Officer, I can always legally --one up-- the use of force continuum. I can "escalate" the situation to stay ahead of the game.

    As I said, other responses may vary based on local and state laws, but this is how it works in Utah.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Thomas Jefferson

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    8,802
    Exactly right. Force continuum give us the authority to go above the resistance encountered.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Array dripster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    618
    Whenever we feel a perceived threat to ourself or others. Again locking onto the force continuum.

    1.Verbal
    2.Oc spray
    3.Hands on
    4.Non lethal means- Tazer, baton
    5.Firearms
    Note: one can go from stage 1 to stage 5 to get back to stage 1 if the situation dictates.
    One more step and it's on!

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Wyoming, DE
    Posts
    11,014
    When your hackles go up! You have to stay ahead of the game, catch up does not always work.
    Hiram25
    You can educate ignorance, you can't fix stupid
    Retired DE Trooper, SA XD40 SC, S&W 2" Airweight
    dukalmighty & Pure Kustom Black Ops Pro "Trooper" Holsters, DE CCDW and LEOSA Permits, Vietnam Vet 68-69 Pleiku

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    You're actually covering quite a broad area.
    First, is the draw precautionary or prepatory. A couple examples are below.

    Precautionary - A furtive movement during a traffic stop that causes concern. In this type of draw often the weapon is often held beside the leg out of sight of the contact. Its purpose to to minimize the time required to bring the weapon into action, should that become necessary, without unduly alarming the contact.

    Prepatory - Apprehension of a violent felon or any situation where the necessary use of lethal force is probable or quite likely. This is often a draw to low ready or an actual covering position. Its purpose is also to minimize the time required to bring the weapon into action, but its more aggressive implementation also serves to advise the suspect/subject that the officer is prepared to use lethal force should the suspect/subject respond in a manner requiring it.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Florida Treasure Coast
    Posts
    3,211

    Cool

    I completely agree with what the first five respondents have said.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

    http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

  9. #8
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,628
    I think it varies quite a bit by state law and by policy. A retired lawman I know told me he was taught that he has no more right to draw than any of the rest of us; and under the same circumstances and the same statutes. He said he didn't get special advantages in the matter. Of course, this was the same guy who probably didn't need to ever use his gun. His smooth calming approach to people, and his superb martial arts skills, both contributed to things never getting out of hand. And if they did get out of hand I doubt the BG would have come out well. A favorite quote from him of mine, "oh, that's how I punched that kid at the rodeo the other day."

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    I'm going to agree and disagree, as I think we are getting into two different things.

    In the application of deadly force, I pretty much agree that peace officers are subject to the same or nearly the same requirements as ordinary citizens.

    In the presentation of deadly force, I believe that peace officers are given considerably more latitude than ordinary citizens. I believe that the reason for this is the difference in the type encounters that peace officers are often involved in, compared to the type of encounters normally encountered by ordinary citizens.

    MA skills are a geat asset, as are personal interactive skills, but they won't stop bullets.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Florida Treasure Coast
    Posts
    3,211

    Cool

    "MA skills are a great asset, as are personal interactive skills, but they won't stop bullets".

    +1
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

    http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

  12. #11
    Member Array Pete14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    189
    Since I have been reading and studying a body language book do they teach Officers to read body language to correspond with certain levels of force continuum.

    1. Physical Presence
    2. Soft Hands
    3. Mace or Pepper Spray
    (A K-9 unit would fall here)
    4. Hard Hands
    5. Police Baton, etc.
    6. Threat of Deadly Force
    7. Deadly Force

    A good example would be when you have a suspect against the wall and he has an aggressive attitude with his arms crossed and closed fists (sign of aggression). This typically represents a person that is in attack mode. Would this immediately put that person farther down the list than someone that is standing with open arms and open palms (sign on submission) and is acting non-agressive?

  13. #12
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    16,142
    If I were to be stopped, it wouldn't bother me in the least for the LEO to unholster his fiream on approach. I understand the caution they must take. It's his pulling the trigger that I am going to object to!
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    5,272
    I believe that some departments teach reading body language, etc, while others do not.

    The level of force will depend on a number of things. Size of the officer and the subject, prior experience and/or knowledge of the sup, if used preemptively or reactively, to name a few. The totality of relative items would determine the level of force used initially, subject to upward or downward adjustment.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    8,802
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete14 View Post
    Since I have been reading and studying a body language book do they teach Officers to read body language to correspond with certain levels of force continuum.

    1. Physical Presence
    2. Soft Hands
    3. Mace or Pepper Spray
    (A K-9 unit would fall here)
    4. Hard Hands
    5. Police Baton, etc.
    6. Threat of Deadly Force
    7. Deadly Force

    A good example would be when you have a suspect against the wall and he has an aggressive attitude with his arms crossed and closed fists (sign of aggression). This typically represents a person that is in attack mode. Would this immediately put that person farther down the list than someone that is standing with open arms and open palms (sign on submission) and is acting non-agressive?
    This is an area that many get confused on. There is a difference in passive resistance and active aggression. At this point, the flags should go up, and the priority is to take control of the situation. This is a place where we go from verbal commands to soft empty hands to OC or taser. It depends on if you are alone, or have others present to assist you. If I am alone, and he refuses my directives, he is getting sprayed or tased. If you do not take immediate control of the situation and control your enviroment, you allow the chances of harm to increase for both you and the subject.

    In hard hands, this includes OC, and impact weapon, taser, as well as cuffing procedures in our continuum. There is no threat of deadly force. Its either used or not. Just pointing our weapon at someone is considered deadly force.

  16. #15
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,628
    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    I'm going to agree and disagree, as I think we are getting into two different things.

    In the application of deadly force, I pretty much agree that peace officers are subject to the same or nearly the same requirements as ordinary citizens.

    In the presentation of deadly force, I believe that peace officers are given considerably more latitude than ordinary citizens. I believe that the reason for this is the difference in the type encounters that peace officers are often involved in, compared to the type of encounters normally encountered by ordinary citizens.

    MA skills are a geat asset, as are personal interactive skills, but they won't stop bullets.
    I think you have it essentially right. I likely over interpreted his comment with regard to the use of deadly force to extend to presentation. My understanding is that here presentation by a chl holder is only permissible in the same circumstances in which the actual application of lethal force is allowed. I don't know if there is a separate set of laws for presentation applicable to LEOs here. These are fine points of distinction but important ones.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Very Bad: Officer arrested for pulling motorists over, charged ‘roadside fee’
    By WhoWeBePart1 in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: June 3rd, 2010, 04:02 PM
  2. Ottawa Police Officer Murdered By Former RCMP Officer.
    By GunnyBunny in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: December 29th, 2009, 08:14 PM
  3. Woman arrested after pulling officer from wreck
    By mlr1m in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 66
    Last Post: July 29th, 2008, 05:23 PM
  4. NH police officer's gun discharges, bullet hits 2nd officer
    By paramedic70002 in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: May 4th, 2008, 06:03 PM
  5. Man shot after pulling gun in police station
    By paramedic70002 in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: January 27th, 2007, 06:49 PM

Search tags for this page

criteria for police drawing weapons
,
force continuum drawing weapon
,
is a police officer pulling gun a use of force
,
is pulling a gun use of force?
,
is pulling gun a use of force
,

officer force continuum hand on gun

,
officer pulling gun
,
police career never drawing
,
police justification for pulling gun
,
police officer criteria for pulling weapon
,
texas police officer pulling weapon without cause
,
use of force continuum draw gun
Click on a term to search for related topics.