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LEO in struggle, what is right thing to do

This is a discussion on LEO in struggle, what is right thing to do within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Simple course of action: "Officer, do you need help?" If he can't answer, that's an answer. If he does answer, act accordingly. Matt...

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Thread: LEO in struggle, what is right thing to do

  1. #16
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    Array MattInFla's Avatar
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    Simple course of action:

    "Officer, do you need help?"

    If he can't answer, that's an answer. If he does answer, act accordingly.

    Matt
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    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I agree very much, that if it is not obvious he is losing, ask the officer if he needs help. He may have something specific for you to do.
    As an example, I had a citizen/victim, at my instruction, call for help on the radio. I had one combative burglary susp prone that I was riding prepatory to hand cuffing and another coming down some nearby stairs with a large knife. I did not want him to directly intervene, as I felt I might be doing some shooting very quickly and I did not want him in the middle of it.
    If in doubt, ask.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  3. #18
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    Here's a story about a man getting involved, I usually post this link on related threads like this.

    http://www.theshootist.net/2009/01/o...-perry_12.html
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    LOL..... I'ld help. Accustomed to walking into situations and finding officer's or jailers wrestling someone... and jumping into the fray. Also really good at cuffing someone in about 2 seconds, just have to know the right pressure points, etc. to make them cooperative.

    Waiting until they grab an officers gun ? Is being way too late to do anything useful.

    Depending upon where it is and what's going on, whether I would notify 911, hit the radio and tell them an officer needs assistance, or just jump in. When approaching, from a legal stand point it's never bad to yell out "officer do you need help" .... at least he knows who's side you are on and if they yell "yes", you may be legally protected. Some jurisdictions, that constitutes being deputized with the same rights as the officer at that point to help make the arrest with the level of force necessary. Check your laws on it.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  5. #20
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    Coming from someone that has restrained his share of ticked off adolescent males. If you are looking to help with someone already on the ground, and have the LEO's OK. Get the legs if you can. Generally the lead person is on the torso. If the BG is face down and trying to get up, sometimes simply laying on his knees takes away his ability to get up. It also keeps them from changing positions. ASAP, wrap his legs in a bear hug and put all your weight on them. Just watch your face as you go in. There are some pretty simple things that can be done to keep someone down, particularly with 2 adults.

    To paraphrase something from another board. "There's nothing worse than wrestling with an inmate, starting to get control of him, then having someone come in and pepper spray both of us."

    I'd help if I could and if it was requested. Come to think of it, I had to help a LEO cuff one of the kids I was working with. I took the kid down before he could attack the LEO. That was a bad night. I have family and friends that are LEO's too. Not sure I would be OK with not helping and something bad happening.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

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  6. #21
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    Good advise so far. What I teach in my classes is make your presence known to the officer and ask if you can be of assistance. Follow instructions from officer, if he says heck yea, help, if he says he has it stay back and observe.

    If it is a clear sitation that the officer is not able to respond due to the violence of the attack on them, or if a deadly force situation has presented itself by the bad guy going for the officers gun or gaining control of the gun, you might not have time to have a discussion with the officer. You have to decide right then whether to act or be a witness.

    Good advice about using the car radio if possible for faster response of other LEO's. These are situations that I explain that I hope I never come upon, but I do use a video of Officer Gillespy from Linden Texas and her struggle with fellow 2x larger than her who gets her gun. Luckily she gets some good help from others and wasn't injured.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  7. #22
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    Situation dependent

    1. Call 911

    2. If possible (meaning the officer can respond) ASK THE OFFICER IF HE WANTS YOUR HELP. In the heat of things the last thing he may want to worry about is another persons safety. Remember he may not know who you are and may think you are assisting the bad guy. It is easy to get turned around in a fight.

    3. If he can't respond (clearly needs help) I would call 911 (if there was time) and help him if not.
    They don't call him lucky Ned Pepper for nothing

  8. #23
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    Depends on the situation:
    1. If the LEO is under immediate threat from the BG and is unable to protect himself/herself, I would step in and try to neutralize the threat.
    2. If there is a remote possibility of the LEO getting hurt, I would call 911 and alert them of the situation.

    Reminds me of a situation 2 years back where I blocked a BG on a one way street. He entered the wrong way and was coming head on towards me. The cars in front of me got out of the way. I kept on going till he turned into a parking lot with 3 police cruisers on his tail. Of course he started yelling at me while he was being arrested.

    And after the entire incident I was yelled at by the wifey for being a smartass.
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  9. #24
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    I am not a LEO, never been, I am ex military (retired) My brother in law is a LEO so is my neighbor (Va Beach and Norfolk ) So as a result I do have several close people and friends in my circle that are. If I saw one in trouble I know as soon as I made the 911 call to get more help (and describe myself as a good guy) I would help the officer as best I could even if it came to shooting the BG.... I want our officers to make it home My nephew and neices want thier dad to come home every night. If I saw a LEO in trouble and did not try to help and he or she were killed it would be more than I could handle I think!!

  10. #25
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    Yuppers,what MattInFla said!!

  11. #26
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    I stumbled across this thread but I'm glad I did. I was in a scenario somewhat similar to this with a buddy of mine. We were driving home from a quick dinner we had where we were discussing (of all things) guns and other similar subjects. On the way home an MHP Trooper had a vehicle stopped up the road in front of us. As he started to interact with the driver, said driver bolted and the trooper gave chase. He radioed for help which seemed so far away and it seemed it took forever for them to get to the scene.
    My friend and I were both armed as we always are. We weren't sure if we should react and stop to assist the Trooper for fear that we'd get ourselves into a "feces" storm that we wouldn't be able to get out of. After the incident happened, after discussing it and being able to look back on it and realize just how far away backup really was I can honestly say that I would have acted differently, we both would have!! I hated the way I felt after just watching the Trooper deal with this subject by himself. I felt sick to my stomach.
    Did me not reacting mean that if the BG had gotten the upper hand and managed to gain control of the Trooper's gun I would have sat by and watched the Trooper die? I hope not but I felt that way. I look at it in that these LEO's are here for us and we're here for them. They do what they can to catch the bad guys, I feel we should do what we can to make their jobs that much easier. If it means helping them to wrestle some BG into handcuffs then so be it! I will not hesitate to help next time, but I hope there never is a next time!! It's difficult enough to watch once, let alone imagine it happening again!!
    In a crisis you don't rise to the occasion but rather default to your level of training!

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  12. #27
    Member Array Axeanda45's Avatar
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    Disclaimer: I do not wish ANYONE, cop or civilian harm or injury of any kind.... and it is always good to help others out........



    Now, to answer the ?

    It depends on how CERTAIN I am about who is the bad guy.......... I myself have been unjustly harassed by the police for doing NOTHING illegal. I will DEFEND myself if need be, regardless if my attacker has a uniform and a badge or not....... So, maybe you need to think of things like this ahead of time.. I do NOT want your help (for the officer) if I am the good guy defending myself from a thug with a badge.....

    It depends a lot on what part of the country you are in.. and if you are in a rural or city type area...... If I saw a policeman in my local area needing help, I would most likely (98% chance) help them out... following the advice others have given in this thread, like asking them if they need help, etc.......

  13. #28
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    Let's see... I'm also a former cop and if I believe that I'm capable to help, I would.
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
    ~ Stephen King

  14. #29
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    I recall one occasion that I had arrested a dirtbag that was selling qualudes out of the front seat of his car on the side of the road. About the time I got him to the back door of my patrol car, the fight was on. I had the guy in a headlock and was beating him as hard as I could with my kel-light and he was pounding my ribs with his fists. I could not slow this dude down being he was so high, he felt no pain. A grunt from Ft Rucker army base came running up (you could tell military back then, they had shaved heads) and he helped me get the guy restrained and in the back of the car. There was so much blood on the ground that you would have thought we were slaughtering hogs. In fact, once back at the station, the EMT's could only tape his head up, there was nothing to stitch. Still got his mugshot in my old scrapbook. Reminded me of a conehead from Saturday Night Live with bandages from the ears up. Anyway, the little recruit from Ft Rucker got himself into trouble the next night and had earned himself a get out of jail free card from my shift.
    Anyway, what I am getting at, a LEO will be aware of what is going on around him even if he is having a problem with an arrest. He will let you know what to do or what not to do.

  15. #30
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    The head does bleed like stuck pig.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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