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LEO in struggle, what is right thing to do

This is a discussion on LEO in struggle, what is right thing to do within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; A brother officer in need...I am all in with both feet. That is the rule. Even if you know the guy and you don't like ...

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Thread: LEO in struggle, what is right thing to do

  1. #31
    Member Array AZ Infidel's Avatar
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    A brother officer in need...I am all in with both feet. That is the rule. Even if you know the guy and you don't like him and vice versa...you are in, all the way in. <------- That's the cop in me talking, even though I am retired now.

    As a newly minted civilian...I am still rendering whatever aid I can. If he is in trouble, yet still up and mobile or in a cover position I will go to his aid yelling..."SHERIFFS DEPARTMENT" as loudly as I can. Then do whatever the situation requires.

    If he is down...I am doing whatever it takes to help him get home to his family...I will obviously figure that out based upon the scene and immediate threats and his/her need of aid. I will summon EMS forthwith, and get backup rolling via his hand held or mobile unit in the cruiser.

    If, like in the notorious video of the female officer getting savagely beaten on the side of the road, I am simply going to drop the subject in his tracks. No hands on, no warning or order to desist. Draw, extend, touch, press. Subject down, and right now.

    Then again....if ANY woman is on her back on the side of the road getting beaten like that...well...you know us Arizona Men don't take kindly to some bad actor mistreating women or kids. I might just take the same action as above.


  2. #32
    Member Array KTCameraman's Avatar
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    That female officer incident is fresh in my mind too, as well as another...

    There was a freelance cameraman that was taping an arrest (attempted) after hearing about it on his police scanner. The BG had the officer subdued and pinned down, but wasn't beating him, only trying to explain the situation, as if it was going diffuse the seriousness of what was happening. His girlfriend was trying to convince him to stop. The cameraman, a CCL holder, seeing that the officer wasn't able to regain control, placed his video camera down with the lens facing the scene and still filming, walked within about twenty feet of the wrestling individuals, and brandished his weapon, yelling "hey, got off him, motherXXXXXX", which made the BG put his hands up just long enough for the officer to flip him over and proceed with cuffing him. The cameraman walked back, picked up his video camera, and continued filming. Needless to say, the cameraman didn't have any action taken against him. But I always wondered if the cop had been an a-hole, if he would have tried to charge the cameraman with brandishing a weapon.

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    You never know what an a-hole will do, regardless of is occupation.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  4. #34
    Member Array AZ Infidel's Avatar
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    @KT...Guantes is right, but I have to guess, based upon experience and some common sensem even a [jerk] isn't going to complain about a helping hand especially if 1. bacon is saved 2. no one is dead (no paperwork) and 3. you go home to your family alive that night.

    I'd be all sorts of appeciative.
    Last edited by JD; February 4th, 2011 at 11:44 PM. Reason: adressed via PM.

  5. #35
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    +1 Mattinfla

  6. #36
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    My general thoughts:

    If it's an all-out battle (the officer clearly being assaulted), the struggle may be won or lost (and not in the LEO's favor) in the seconds it takes for me to call 911 (I haven't found calling 911 particularly speedy) or use the LEO's radio. If it even barely appears that the BG has any advantage, I'm piling on first to help the LEO gain control of the situation. Even If I called first, it might be many minutes before help arrived.

    Now if it's more of a grappling match--the officer trying to cuff someone who's being resistant--I make the call first and standby just in case.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  7. #37
    Member Array billfromtx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram25 View Post
    Me as an ex LEO, if the officer is in trouble, I'm going to help him. If the BG gets the officer's weapon, I'm going to shoot him.
    Im not a ex-Leo. But my response is the same.
    USMC 1984-1992
    To err is human.
    To forgive is divine.
    Neither of which is Marine Corps policy.

    "It's all about shot placement."- David (Slayer of Goliath)

  8. #38
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    This is one of the many scenarios I have thought a lot about. What I have concluded is, if I am with my family, I may not jump in and help fight off the bad guy but get the family to a safe place while calling for help for the officer. If I am by myself, you can bet that i will be helping the officer out while making it known to the officer and the scum bag they are fighting with that I am there to help the LEO.

    They are out there every day trying to protect all of us, if one is in trouble you can bet I am going to return the favor.
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  9. #39
    Member Array jwarren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfshead View Post

    And after the entire incident I was yelled at by the wifey for being a smartass.
    This happens to me a lot.
    TheGiant likes this.

  10. #40
    Member Array bigfug's Avatar
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    Read this, and guess what my answer is gonna be...
    Oklahoma City police describe assault on off-duty officer | NewsOK.com

    Police revealed new details Thursday of the assault that paralyzed an off-duty police officer, saying one attacker attempted a choke hold while another punched the officer six to seven times in the face.




    Oklahoma City police officer Chad Peery, 34, was beaten at Dan O'Brien's Public House in north Oklahoma City on Tuesday, Feb. 15, 2010. He suffered a broken neck. Provided by Oklahoma City police.

    Oklahoma City police describe assault on off-duty officer
    NewsOK Related ArticlesFund set up to help injured Oklahoma City police...
    02/18/2011 Details about how to help an injured Oklahoma City police officer have been released. Officer Chad Peery has suffered paralyzing injuries
    A third man held others back, telling a police detective later that he wanted it to be a fair fight, police reported.

    Chad Peery, 34, was hurt Tuesday night at Dan O'Brien's Public House in northwest Oklahoma City when employees asked him to help control a disturbance. He was badly injured and lying on the ground outside the club when officers arrived, police reported

    A doctor at OU Medical Center told police Peery's neck had fractured and two vertebras were displaced. The doctor said Peery “would be quadriplegic as a result of the injuries,” police reported.

    Being held without bail in the Oklahoma County jail on maiming complaints are Joshua B. Rinken, 28, of Norman; Jimmy Dan Smith, 28, of Tuttle; and Cadmio Antonio Lopez, 31, of Newcastle.

    Police on Thursday filed court affidavits that describe the assault.

    In the affidavits, a police detective reported a recording from a club surveillance camera shows Peery was attempting to escort a group of males outside the club.

    “Upon exiting the club Rinken is observed pushing Peery in the face. Peery and Rinken engage each other and move out of camera view,” the detective reported.

    The detective reported a witness observed Rinken and Smith punching the officer in the face. The detective reported the witness said Rinken “also grabbed Peery around the midsection, forcing Peery's head downward. Rinken appeared to attempt to obtain a choke hold on Peery.”

    The detective reported the witness said Smith threw six to seven punches, striking Peery in the face.

    The detective said the witness also observed Lopez getting involved in the fight.

    Police said they identified the suspects and arrested them because witnesses took down vehicle license plate numbers.

    The detective reported Smith “confessed … to punching Peery in the face” and also admitted he knew Peery was a police officer before the assault. The detective reported Lopez “admitted to holding other people back so Rinken could have a fair fight with Peery.”

    The affidavits do not disclose whether Rinken made a statement to police. On his Facebook page, Rinken said his interests include working out, eating and partying.

    It was not clear Thursday if any of the men had hired attorneys yet.

    The officer's mother, Jan Peery, said his condition hasn't changed much since Wednesday when he had surgery.

    “He's fighting through,” Jan Peery said. “We've got a lot of support. The police officers have just been phenomenal. The police department has just anticipated any need we may have.”

    She said friends also have been supportive and strangers have even contacted the family over Facebook. She said the family hasn't had a chance to answer all the messages but greatly appreciates them.

    “We need all that. He needs that,” the mother said. “My hope is that as we get further down the road in the long haul people will keep him in their prayers.”

    Police Master Sgt. Gary Knight said a copy of the 911 call in the case will not be released because it is part of the investigation.

    Contributing: Bryan Dean and Michael Kimball, Staff Writers



    Read more: Oklahoma City police describe assault on off-duty officer | NewsOK.com

  11. #41
    Member Array tbroy's Avatar
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    While on duty as a very young 19 y/o MP, I got into a struggle with two individuals. I owe my life to our unit amorer. He wasn't an MP, but he felt obligated to assist me. So, yes. I'd ask if he/she needed help. It's funny how 26 years later, the details are still crystal clear.

  12. #42
    New Member Array adam12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram25 View Post
    Me as an ex LEO, if the officer is in trouble, I'm going to help him. If the BG gets the officer's weapon, I'm going to shoot him.
    As another former LEO I concur. Couldn't live with myself if I did nothing.

  13. #43
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    No matter if one helps or not, they will of course live with themselves and their decision after the fact.

    What sickens me is that we even have to ask this question. The Uniformed Police Officer is the representation of society, or at least should be, and is the line in the sand against anarchy. If you're a LEO, butthole or not, I will render what aide and assistance I deem necessary to put the situation in your favor. If you are the offender, defending against illegal acts of an unrighteous LEO, let's just say that it sucks to be you, but you will still be dealt with as an offender and the goal is to put things in society's favor, and it's represenatives.

    Biker

  14. #44
    VIP Member Array old grunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram25 View Post
    Me as an ex LEO, if the officer is in trouble, I'm going to help him. If the BG gets the officer's weapon, I'm going to shoot him.
    ************************************************** ************************************************** ********
    YES INDEED ! Retired here too...and I slow down when I see an Officer on a stop ...just in case. Force of habit,I guess.
    "We deal in lead friend">Steve McQueen The Magnificent Seven
    82d Abn(1983-86)OIF 2007-08
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    Still Love Ya Sarah !
    "no kidding,gun slinging,spurs hitting the floor"

  15. #45
    VIP Member Array old grunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfug View Post
    Read this, and guess what my answer is gonna be...
    Oklahoma City police describe assault on off-duty officer | NewsOK.com

    Police revealed new details Thursday of the assault that paralyzed an off-duty police officer, saying one attacker attempted a choke hold while another punched the officer six to seven times in the face.




    Oklahoma City police officer Chad Peery, 34, was beaten at Dan O'Brien's Public House in north Oklahoma City on Tuesday, Feb. 15, 2010. He suffered a broken neck. Provided by Oklahoma City police.

    Oklahoma City police describe assault on off-duty officer
    NewsOK Related ArticlesFund set up to help injured Oklahoma City police...
    02/18/2011 Details about how to help an injured Oklahoma City police officer have been released. Officer Chad Peery has suffered paralyzing injuries
    A third man held others back, telling a police detective later that he wanted it to be a fair fight, police reported.

    Chad Peery, 34, was hurt Tuesday night at Dan O'Brien's Public House in northwest Oklahoma City when employees asked him to help control a disturbance. He was badly injured and lying on the ground outside the club when officers arrived, police reported

    A doctor at OU Medical Center told police Peery's neck had fractured and two vertebras were displaced. The doctor said Peery “would be quadriplegic as a result of the injuries,” police reported.

    Being held without bail in the Oklahoma County jail on maiming complaints are Joshua B. Rinken, 28, of Norman; Jimmy Dan Smith, 28, of Tuttle; and Cadmio Antonio Lopez, 31, of Newcastle.

    Police on Thursday filed court affidavits that describe the assault.

    In the affidavits, a police detective reported a recording from a club surveillance camera shows Peery was attempting to escort a group of males outside the club.

    “Upon exiting the club Rinken is observed pushing Peery in the face. Peery and Rinken engage each other and move out of camera view,” the detective reported.

    The detective reported a witness observed Rinken and Smith punching the officer in the face. The detective reported the witness said Rinken “also grabbed Peery around the midsection, forcing Peery's head downward. Rinken appeared to attempt to obtain a choke hold on Peery.”

    The detective reported the witness said Smith threw six to seven punches, striking Peery in the face.

    The detective said the witness also observed Lopez getting involved in the fight.

    Police said they identified the suspects and arrested them because witnesses took down vehicle license plate numbers.

    The detective reported Smith “confessed … to punching Peery in the face” and also admitted he knew Peery was a police officer before the assault. The detective reported Lopez “admitted to holding other people back so Rinken could have a fair fight with Peery.”

    The affidavits do not disclose whether Rinken made a statement to police. On his Facebook page, Rinken said his interests include working out, eating and partying.

    It was not clear Thursday if any of the men had hired attorneys yet.

    The officer's mother, Jan Peery, said his condition hasn't changed much since Wednesday when he had surgery.

    “He's fighting through,” Jan Peery said. “We've got a lot of support. The police officers have just been phenomenal. The police department has just anticipated any need we may have.”

    She said friends also have been supportive and strangers have even contacted the family over Facebook. She said the family hasn't had a chance to answer all the messages but greatly appreciates them.

    “We need all that. He needs that,” the mother said. “My hope is that as we get further down the road in the long haul people will keep him in their prayers.”

    Police Master Sgt. Gary Knight said a copy of the 911 call in the case will not be released because it is part of the investigation.

    Contributing: Bryan Dean and Michael Kimball, Staff Writers



    Read more: Oklahoma City police describe assault on off-duty officer | NewsOK.com
    ************************************************** ************************************************** ***************
    After reading this it is very hard to say anything but savages like these must die. Their actions forfeit any compassion they should receive in a civilized society.
    "We deal in lead friend">Steve McQueen The Magnificent Seven
    82d Abn(1983-86)OIF 2007-08
    Glock 19&26/ Colt Gov't & OM/Ruger SP101
    Retired NYS LEO / NRA Life Member
    Still Love Ya Sarah !
    "no kidding,gun slinging,spurs hitting the floor"

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