LEO in struggle, what is right thing to do

This is a discussion on LEO in struggle, what is right thing to do within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I read an older post here about the LEO down on a lonely road with someone on top beating him. The clear consensus was to ...

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Thread: LEO in struggle, what is right thing to do

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    Member Array jfnixon's Avatar
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    LEO in struggle, what is right thing to do

    I read an older post here about the LEO down on a lonely road with someone on top beating him. The clear consensus was to intervene; that's what I would do. But what if it isn't that clear-cut? On the way home, I saw an officer cuffing someone and putting them in the patrol car. It made me wonder, if I ever saw an officer in a struggle, what is the Best Thing to do?

    My first reaction is to call 911 and report officer in struggle. I think it would be unwise to intervene at all unless it was clear the officer was in deep trouble, or the BG obtained the gun. The LEO has enough on his hands without me busting in to complicate the situation.

    What if the BG gets the gun?

    What if the BG gets the gun, but immediately turns and runs?

    What if there are other people in the area, say a parking lot with people walking around?

    I know there are lots of variables, but what do the LEOs here advise?

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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    Me as an ex LEO, if the officer is in trouble, I'm going to help him. If the BG gets the officer's weapon, I'm going to shoot him.
    Hiram25
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    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    Oh, I forgot. Welcome to the DC Forum from Delaware!
    Hiram25
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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I agree with Hiram25. One additional thought. If you wish to help, but not intervene, if you can get to the unit radio it will be much faster summoning help than a phone.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    If an officer is in a struggle, I'm going to help him if possible. I'll make it known that I'm there to assist him. Once the BG gets the LEO's gun, the LEO is already in a SHTF situation and seconds can mean the difference between him going home to his family that night or being killed.
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    Many many years ago while working as an EMT in a very small town we were dispatched to an attempted suicide. 2:00 AM. Before we arrived on scene dispatch told us the officer ( on scene) was being assaulted and more help was 15 minutes away. My partner was a female. As we approached the house I could see the officer and a subject wrestling around in the living room. I entered to see the patient on the floor and no threat. By then the BG had the officer pinned down on the couch but the officers gun was still in holster. I grabbed ahold of the bad guy and in just seconds the officer regained control of the bad guy and I could resume patient care duties. My point is it may take very little assistance to the officer to turn the tide back in favor of the LEO. If a weapon is involved this is totally different. Maybe, just maybe, if the BG has a gun and a uniformed officers life is in emminent danger and it is real clear who the good guys and bad guys are... well maybe. I bet those decesions well be made long before you have had time to rationalize all your options. For that reason I read this forum. Every event will be different, every persons actions or inations will be for a different reason. that's just fine. I think the single most important thing you can do ( other than be able to shoot well) is to have at least considered the "what if's" and have processed your own personal values, motives, skills, and the reason(s) you carry a gun. A deer in the headlight look , at the time of an incident, is no ones fault but your own.
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    Member Array nhcruffler's Avatar
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    Hello jfnixon and welcome to the forum. I would never intervene unless I felt that the Officer really needed help. If you felt that they really needed help I would say to jump in there , if you are capable. There are always going to be varying factors . A few years ago here in NH a guy driving with his son saw a p.o.s. shoot a Police Officer and then run over the Officer. The sumeritan stopped and used the Officers gun to stop the attack. Sadly both the officer and scum bag did not make it. IT would all boil down to a split second judgement call on your part.

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    VIP Member Array paaiyan's Avatar
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    I agree with calling for help first thing, via the radio if you can. Units should call in their location when making stops, so if you can give the unit number and a general location that should be enough. After requesting help I'd be calling to the officer asking if he needed help. If there's an obvious struggle for his or another weapon and I felt the officer was in danger, heck yes I'd draw and make it known who I am and whose side I'm on. As far as actually shooting... If I felt the officer's life was legitimately in danger, and only if I knew good and frigging well that I could safely make that shot.
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    Depending on the situation would dictate how I would respond but I wouldn't hesitate to help if the officer is in trouble.
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    Member Array jfnixon's Avatar
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    It sounds like the course of action is run to help, announcing your presence and intentions. If the officer yells for me to stay back, comply. The tip about the unit radio is a great one to file away. I agree that the BG going for the gun is a tipping point at which I would be justified in drawing and shooting. This would also be justified in the officer was clearly losing the fight and in danger of being severely injured.

    One last question, suppose the officer is injured, and I draw and shoot the BG. I know the GGs are coming soon. I make sure no other BG is at hand, reholster to put the gun out of sight, and go to aid the officer. Anything else I need to do to avoid being mistaken for the BG when the GGs arrive?

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    My inclination would be to yell at the arriving officers to, "Call an ambulance, he is injured !". This would accomplish a possibly needed task and help to establish me as a good guy.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    1. At the very minimum, I'm calling 911 or getting on their unit radio.
    2. Then helping the LEO.
    3. Only as a L A S T resort will I draw my pistol and / or shoot BG. ( I don't want to add to the possible confusion that I AM A GOOD GUY) eithor by the LEO or his back up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram25 View Post
    Me as an ex LEO, if the officer is in trouble, I'm going to help him. If the BG gets the officer's weapon, I'm going to shoot him.
    Quote Originally Posted by fastk9dad View Post
    Depending on the situation would dictate how I would respond but I wouldn't hesitate to help if the officer is in trouble.



    ^^^^^^^^^^I am NOT a cop, nor do I play one on TV.^^^^^^^^^^^^^


    But if an officer is in it up to his elbows and beyond, I'm most likely coming to his aid.
    If I do nothing, I don't think I could face myself in the mirror, knowing that I could have made a difference in a desparate situation.

    How could anyone look a wife and /children of a fallen officer in the face and not feel horrible for not trying.


    Thanks Guantes for the good info, as always.

    Also good perspective from timezoneguy for HOW MUCH or HOW LITTLE might actually have to be done on the civilians part to aid the officer.
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    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Do not be afraid to ask the officer, "Can I help"? if your not sure. I always have a few options aside from my CCW. I carry my keys on a ASP Street Defense pepper spray, if I am in my POV I have an ASP baton and a Kel Light for impact weapons and a MK III First Defense pepper spray. The help needed may not be the use of deadly force but of less than lethal just to allow the officer to regain control the situation.
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    Senior Member Array KoriBustard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhcruffler View Post
    Hello jfnixon and welcome to the forum. I would never intervene unless I felt that the Officer really needed help. If you felt that they really needed help I would say to jump in there , if you are capable. There are always going to be varying factors . A few years ago here in NH a guy driving with his son saw a p.o.s. shoot a Police Officer and then run over the Officer. The sumeritan stopped and used the Officers gun to stop the attack. Sadly both the officer and scum bag did not make it. IT would all boil down to a split second judgement call on your part.
    I'm somewhat familiar with the case and if I'm not mistaken, the good samaritan was a former Marine. I don't know if that makes a differences but he had had some training.

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