unwanted visitor

unwanted visitor

This is a discussion on unwanted visitor within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So today i am at home getting dressed for work and i hear a knock on the door, yelled at grandma to let her know ...

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Thread: unwanted visitor

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    unwanted visitor

    So today i am at home getting dressed for work and i hear a knock on the door, yelled at grandma to let her know someone was here in case it was someone she knew, grabbed my .45 and held it behind my back and opened the door. As soon as i opened the door a shabby unkempt man who was standing outside opens up my screen door. I jumped back, yelled don't touch my effing door. and began to bring my arm out from behind my back, but stopped just as my knuckles hit my hip. I did not flash my weapon at any point. He jumped back, shut the door. and then made an excuse about how he was just looking for some money for cigerettes and said he was willing to sweep my sidewalk for the money. (Note, there was no snow on said sidewalk at the time) He then tried to get me to let him wash my truck for a dollar. (I about took him up on this as it is rather dirty.) Instead I told him I keep no cash in the house or on me, and I do not give out money to strangers on my door and that he needed to get off my property. He then told me I was a rude butt and needed to get some manners, then turned around and walked next door. I went inside, called the police and as soon as I described him, the dispatcher told me they had gotten a few calls about him and police were en-route. Good to know my neighbors watch my house lol. The police said that he was known in the area, probably expected my grandma to be home alone since I normally am gone by the time he showed up and got a heck of a surprise when I opened up the door. He also said had I not scared him by yelling at him to not touch the door, he probably would have walked right in the house. We filed a report and asked for increased patrols in the area. Any critiques other than don't open the door for strangers?
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."


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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    did good by the sounds of it to me. Make sure grandma doesn't open the door for him if he does come back.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

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    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    Do you grab your .45 every time someone knocks on your door? The girl scouts need to know this for cookie sales time.
    Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Husker View Post
    Do you grab your .45 every time someone knocks on your door? The girl scouts need to know this for cookie sales time.
    Yes, we have some vicious Girl Scouts in our area.

    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."

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    INccwchris, we've found more common ground than not, but this post strikes me as paranoia of the lone bum as an axe-murdering home invader. Sure it happens. I'm sure that you have a lot on your plate with work and keeping your grandma safe. While paranoia is not a crime, here's my take.
    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    As soon as i opened the door a shabby unkempt man who was standing outside opens up my screen door.
    You said it =
    Don't open the door for strangers.
    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    I told him I keep no cash in the house or on me, and I do not give out money to strangers on my door and that he needed to get off my property. He then told me I was a rude butt and needed to get some manners, then turned around and walked next door.
    This is good advertisement for you. There is a bum grapevine of which you seem to be aware and suspecting that your grandma is falling prey:
    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    The police said that he was known in the area, probably expected my grandma to be home alone since I normally am gone by the time he showed up and got a heck of a surprise when I opened up the door.
    The police are telling you that your presence probably surprised the bum and avoided a home invasion? We're all on the same side, but it's rather extreme if the police actually said that? Sorry, I'm not getting the same warm and fuzzy commendation of my presence from the police. Maybe it's your uniform?
    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    He also said had I not scared him by yelling at him to not touch the door, he probably would have walked right in the house. We filed a report and asked for increased patrols in the area.
    Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you. Best to err on the side of paranoia. But are you looking for an army of these home-invading bums? Aren't the police directing the "gentleman" to a more appropriate abode?
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    i was not in uniform yet ,i had just barely finished shaving and was in just my gym shorts and t-shirt i wear around the house. I think the officer meant more along the lines of being surprised it was 6'0 280 me standing at the door instead of 5'5 150 pound grandma and that I did not just step aside and welcome him in. I do think the officers statement was a bit reaching, but nevertheless. Honestly I wish he hadn't said that because now my grandma might worry more if she heard him say that. And yes, I do always answer the door with a weapon somewhere either behind my back in my hand or on my hip like normal, I am not of the mind frame that I should never open my door to someone and would help someone in desperate need, or buy girl scout cookies because i love samoas, but I do believe in having my weapon right there instead of across the room where it would do no good. that plus the spidey sense went off so i figured better safe than sorry. Not expecting any more trouble, but we have had our problems in this neighborhood in the past. Also, do you think I did the right thing by saying I keep no cash on me or in my house? Part of me says yes, but a back part of my mind is saying well maybe he will think i gotta be lying and come back to check later
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

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    I know my answer but, what would you have done had he crossed the threshold? Training events like this should make us look deep down inside our souls for the answer to this question so there is no hesitation during a time when your life may very well depend on your decision. I think you know your answer also but many have not done the soul searching to find the answer and the time to do it isn't when your life is on the line.

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    With a .45 in his hand, I have no doubt what INccwchris would do. The answer is that you don't give bums a handhold with a handout where you live. A gentle kick is appropriate.
    a back part of my mind is saying well maybe he will think i gotta be lying and come back to check later
    You might be overthinking this.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    It sounds to me like you did fine Chris. Good to let the Law know about him.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    Also, do you think I did the right thing by saying I keep no cash on me or in my house? Part of me says yes, but a back part of my mind is saying well maybe he will think i gotta be lying and come back to check later
    Yes, you did the right thing. I'm sure he's smart enough to know you have some money. But you sent the message that he is not going to get it. And make no mistake, these guys share information.

    I'm not paranoid of a bum invasion. But I work within sight of the local homeless shelter. I got approached semi regularly when I started. I rarely get approached any more. I never give anything. If you think I am making too much of it, then I got a story. I went on vacation, and the new guy working there got approached 2 nights in a row. Had to threaten to call 911 to get them to leave one night. I think someone noticed a new car parked there. I did not get messed with after coming back for several weeks. The advice I got when I started was that if you give somebody something, be ready to give everybody something.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

    "Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun. And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son." Josh Thompson "Way Out Here"

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    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    Also, do you think I did the right thing by saying I keep no cash on me or in my house? Part of me says yes, but a back part of my mind is saying well maybe he will think i gotta be lying and come back to check later
    I don't see if it matters one way or the other, I guess I find it hard to believe that there is anybody out there that does not keep some cash on them. I don't keep big amounts of cash in the house, but there's usually 20-50 dollars in change in a jar. The wife hase about the same in her jar.
    I think usually everyone has at least a few dollars on them, how could you go through life without some cash? I remember years ago hearing that there was a vagrancy law on the books that said if you had no visible means of support, and did not have at least two dollars on you, you could be arrested for vagrancy. I guess with inflation that amount would have to be more like twenty dollars nowadays.

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    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Here we are again - one of my favorite topics. I'll respectfully disagree. YOU DIDN'T DO THE RIGHT THING.

    Why did you even open the door? If you cannot see who's at the door, install a peephole or a side light so you can determine who's calling on you. If none of those is proper, a video system is very cheap nowadays. If you don't recognize them, and didn't initiate the visit, simply walk away and let them stand there until they leave. If it is one of granny's friends, you'd be able to tell, and then you wouldn't be opening the door while trying to conceal a .45. You'd swing the door open and say, "Good morning, Mrs Dewlap. How are you this morning? Please come in."

    As you handled it, you first shouted obscenities at a stranger, then got dragged into a discussion with a bum. Just what he wanted. You are now arguing with him on his terms. Why? Do you like chatting with bums, or spending your morning shouting and turning down his offers of "help"? Personally, I find that too stressful.

    Simply not answering the door would have been the safest thing to do: no weapons handling, no shouting, no debate with a wino, no fuss.

    You guys who swing open the door everytime someone knocks/rings like it's a present on Christmas morning amuse me. It's Pavlovian.

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    Kinda crappy weather for washing a car, isn't it?

    You opened the door, prepared for the unexpected. What's wrong with that?
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array tkruf's Avatar
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    Sounds to me like you handled it well. +1 on making sure that granny doesn't answer the door when you're not there. Good SA.
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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I find no fault with your actions, however, with the great benefits of hindsight, I am sure you are working on a refinement of your future actions.

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