Confronted and threatened, but no visible weapon. - Page 2

Confronted and threatened, but no visible weapon.

This is a discussion on Confronted and threatened, but no visible weapon. within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by INccwchris the laws only say when a reasonable person would be in fear for my life, someone puts a finger in a ...

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Thread: Confronted and threatened, but no visible weapon.

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    the laws only say when a reasonable person would be in fear for my life, someone puts a finger in a jacket, makes it look like a gun, says i have a gun, and i don't have the ability to prove to myself otherwise at the time, i am in fear for my life, i toss them my wallet and draw to fire
    Bear in mind the "reasonable person" may be the 12 on the jury--not you. What you consider reasonable they may not. That's the conundrum of "reasonable."
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array dripster's Avatar
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    In NY DPF is justified in the prevent/terminate phase of Robbery. DPF is also justified in the custody/escape from custody phase of Robbery as well.
    One more step and it's on!

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Hey Guantes: This gentleman was not a victim of a robbery while these guys were circling around him in some fashion. By the time they had their say, they were now on top of him and were now in the process of committing a robbery. Assuming you did all you could to get away from the situation (in this case he is not a young stallion who could run away--he has a cane) and they now were close in on you, what, based on your experience can you do at this point. Even before they are in close on you, what can you do to eliminate the problem. Let's leave out not being in that area at night. Appreciate you always experienced answers.
    In the situation of the OP, your options are limited. He is essentially unarmed and unable to flee. IF I saw them closing on me, my first thought would be a robbery. I would get on my cell phone and report as a "possible robbery in progress". This is going to get a much faster response than a "suspicious person" call. It is usually illegal to make false reports to police, but if you believe that is what is happening, it is not a false report. If the incident comes to fruition prior to the arrival of the cops, here again your options are limited, depending and other attributes of the victim. It may be that your best option is going to be to comply with the demands of the robber(s).

    If the OP were armed (gun) then your options are increased. IT then depends on making a determination of the best course of action to suffer the least amount of physical injury possible. The specific circumstances will be a major aid in making that determination. In the end, it is a judgement call by the victim based on not only the circumstances of the incident, but also his training, experience and "gut" feeling of the incident.

    I hope this helps.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    it is worth ten bucks NOT to have to kill someone
    Bingo. That's the right answer.

    Toss 'em the money. It's just paper. You can call the cops later and report the incident. No big deal.

    A dead body on the ground? That's a really big deal. Your lawyer will clean you out of cash faster than the bad guy would have, and your lawyer will keep sucking cash out of your account day after day after day.

    By the time you're free and clear (assuming that you are found to be innocent of wrongdoing), you'll have paid your lawyer's country club dues for the year. You might be in your newspaper. Maybe you'll have death threats coming in from the deceased's friends and family. Depending, you might even lose your job.

    See, a lotta people on this board take the attitude that if a perp looks at you funny, why, open up with the .40 and keep shooting until the BG is down for the count. Then you stroll away, cool breeze.

    But most likely, it won't happen that way. Defend your life, sure, but no reason to be dealing out death for a double sawbuck.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Note, that the tossing of the money, was backed up by a Glock 40 pointed at the chest of the robber.

    If everyone could be assured that a robber would just take the money/wallet and go, I think that most would give it up. In spite of statistics supporting that conclusion, there is no guarantee of that and with recent robberies demonstrating that the robbers are more and more inclined to kill or seriously injure the victim, the answer is more uncertain.

    One thing that I think is of importance is the diffference between a serious crime being perpetrated and more grey incidents such as disputes, fights, etc. The later is at considerably more risk of problems criminally and civily than the former. JMO
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  6. #21
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    Keep in mind that things are radically different now with regard to any sort of respect for human life.

    These days....submissive compliance is no longer any sort of guarantee that you'll walk away from a potential deadly threat, perpetrator, or scenario alive to tell about it.

    You can hand over your money, your jewelry, you can beg for your life, you can tell the perp that you have a Wife & three little kids, & still get shot in the head just for the hellovit.

  7. #22
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    Shoot him....why? He made the bad choice to rob you....especially if he claimed he had a gun and didn't have one. If he didn't have one, then its your story against a dead man's.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  8. #23
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Keep in mind that things are radically different now with regard to any sort of respect for human life.

    These days....submissive compliance is no longer any sort of guarantee that you'll walk away from a potential deadly threat, perpetrator, or scenario alive to tell about it.

    You can hand over your money, your jewelry, you can beg for your life, you can tell the perp that you have a Wife & three little kids, & still get shot in the head just for the hellovit.
    Pay attention to ^^^ THIS ^^^ OP; and count yourself fortunate.

    I knew a man that was working alone at a mobile home dealership. When someone came in and robbed him. He complied; but evidently that was not enough. They escorted him into one of the homes on the lot and executed him.

    I say if someone tells you they have a gun and will use it, believe it AND act accordingly! Depending on a lot of other variables, the "appropriate" action may be to comply; and/OR the "appropriate" action may be FIGHT!

    BUT!!!!!

    Always be ready to FIGHT; because sometimes the BGs just do NOT go away!

    In your instance, your cane could have made a good defensive weapon. I have to use a cane sometimes as well. But, I have no problem in using it with EXTREME force!

  9. #24
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    Money thrown on the ground gives plenty of time to draw, I am taking the slack out of my trigger on his way down any real fast movement up on his part hes getting two to the chest and one to the head

  10. #25
    B94
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    OP stated he had a leg injury at the time and was using a cane and had no weapon. I think I would have tried to bluff the BG off before he got too close. Something like in a loud voice say STOP DONíT COME ANY CLOSER while blading my body and reaching to my 4:00 pretending to be ready to draw. Iíve bluffed before and it worked. I donít know if this would have worked for the OP but something to consider.
    PRO-SECOND AMENDMENT - Live Free or Die

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    A bluff is a possibility, but you better be ready to be called on it. Better to have a good hand to begin with, if possible.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  12. #27
    B94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    A bluff is a possibility, but you better be ready to be called on it. Better to have a good hand to begin with, if possible.
    True and I don't bluff anymore. I'm always armed where legal.
    PRO-SECOND AMENDMENT - Live Free or Die

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Note, that the tossing of the money, was backed up by a Glock 40 pointed at the chest of the robber.

    If everyone could be assured that a robber would just take the money/wallet and go, I think that most would give it up. In spite of statistics supporting that conclusion, there is no guarantee of that and with recent robberies demonstrating that the robbers are more and more inclined to kill or seriously injure the victim, the answer is more uncertain.

    One thing that I think is of importance is the diffference between a serious crime being perpetrated and more grey incidents such as disputes, fights, etc. The later is at considerably more risk of problems criminally and civily than the former. JMO
    Yeah...I should have made more clear in my post...IF I KNEW I COULD CLEAR LEATHER WITHOUT GETTING SHOT FOR MY TROUBLE. The reality is...I have training, years of street experience as LE, years of competition shooting, and the confidence that brings. But...,yes, if I believed he was armed, and the weapon was as the OP related...in a pocket...I would draw. If he had the weapon out...when he bent to get the money which was now his focus, I would draw and fire without giving him the option of leaving. Let's face it...he is still a real danger to the community at that point, and I don't plan to get shot. Pretty cut and dried in that case.

    It's a tough call. No one expects you to be a hero. No one expects you to John Wayne or Rambo it. I will still call it cheap at ten bucks not to have to pull the trigger. But there you have it. I have lived a long time to get as old as I am!

    As Guantes has mentioned...robbery and compliance don't mean you will not be killed any more. The scumbags nowdays are killing for fun it seems. I'd prefer to take a good gamble on my own ability in the situation as I had posted.

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B94 View Post
    OP stated he had a leg injury at the time and was using a cane and had no weapon. I think I would have tried to bluff the BG off before he got too close. Something like in a loud voice say STOP DON’T COME ANY CLOSER while blading my body and reaching to my 4:00 pretending to be ready to draw. I’ve bluffed before and it worked. I don’t know if this would have worked for the OP but something to consider.
    This might be bad, if the BG actually has a gun in his coat pocket the act of going for your "gun" might be enough to put him over the edge and make him shoot you. Now all you can do is hope he's a lousy point aim shot.
    Tossing the money seems like a pretty good idea to me.

  15. #30
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    the ultimate answer


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