Do you have to fight? - Page 10

Do you have to fight?

This is a discussion on Do you have to fight? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Adam12, In your situation, you had a considrable disparity of force, contrary to the original theme of the thread. That would allow an elevation of ...

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Thread: Do you have to fight?

  1. #136
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Adam12,
    In your situation, you had a considrable disparity of force, contrary to the original theme of the thread. That would allow an elevation of potential force on your part. Do what you have to do.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".


  2. #137
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    I realize why the laws are written the way they are. We cannot have someone using deadly force on another person just to settle any old dispute. I also can also understand the person who does not want to fight being upset that he cannot resort to deadly force to keep from getting punched in the nose.

    Michael

  3. #138
    Senior Member Array druryj's Avatar
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    In answer to the question: Do you HAVE to fight? The answer is NO. You don't HAVE to fight. You can opt to take the beating or worse if you so choose. I think it's known as a judgment call.

  4. #139
    New Member Array chazz's Avatar
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    I would wrather take a butt kicking then have to shoot sum 1 .If the bg is not armed I would not draw my weapon just IMO

  5. #140
    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    I think you are fooling yourself that all you are going to get is a "punch in the nose".

    You don't get to CHOOSE the kind of attack you get!

    If you are happy to get a beat down, or worse, and are happy to deprive your family of your company, PERMANENTLY, when your attacker relieves you of your gun, and blows your brains out, have at it.

    How much beating do you PLAN to ACCEPT? A broken nose? Teeth knocked out? Gouged out eye? Broken arms? Cracked ribs? Smashed kneecaps? It will happen in SECONDS, and once it starts, you won't have time to ponder and consider the situation.


    Really, why even PRETEND you are serious about self defense or protecting your family if you have that mindset?
    tcox4freedom likes this.

  6. #141
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I had my nose broke in a beat down (3-4 guys holding me) and I almost shot them. I'm sure not going to stand still for one guy to do it again. I will avoid it if at all possible, but if it can't be avoided, I'm not going to stand there and take it. OC and hands on, if necessary.
    tcox4freedom likes this.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  7. #142
    Member Array ncsteveh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazz View Post
    I would rather take a butt kicking then have to shoot sum 1 .If the bg is not armed I would not draw my weapon just IMO

    Just remember that the bg just might come across your weapon after he has beaten the snot out of you. Then what??????

  8. #143
    Member Array GhostRed7's Avatar
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    I'm 37 y/o, a disabled vet, and you better believe if my chances of walking away and/or de-escalating WITHOUT my sidearm/knife/whatever doesn't exist...I WILL inform the assailant of my firearm, if the BG keeps aggressing, I WILL draw my weapon, and if the BG STILL continues, the BG will be shot...period. The timeline is shortened even more if loved ones are in danger. One punch in the wrong place, or a fall/knockdown in the wrong place, I'm instantly paralyzed. This doesn't even take into consideration my heart and asthma issues.

    FWIW....code in my state:

    GEORGIA CODE
    Copyright 2011 by The State of Georgia
    All rights reserved.

    *** Current Through the 2010 Regular Session ***
    *** Annotations Current Through October 29, 2010 ***

    TITLE 16. CRIMES AND OFFENSES
    CHAPTER 3. DEFENSES TO CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS
    ARTICLE 2. JUSTIFICATION AND EXCUSE

    O.C.G.A. § 16-3-21 (2011)

    § 16-3-21. Use of force in defense of self or others; evidence of belief that force was necessary in murder or manslaughter prosecution


    (a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to defend himself or herself or a third person against such other's imminent use of unlawful force; however, except as provided in Code Section 16-3-23, a person is justified in using force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury to himself or herself or a third person or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

    (b) A person is not justified in using force under the circumstances specified in subsection (a) of this Code section if he:

    (1) Initially provokes the use of force against himself with the intent to use such force as an excuse to inflict bodily harm upon the assailant;

    (2) Is attempting to commit, committing, or fleeing after the commission or attempted commission of a felony; or

    (3) Was the aggressor or was engaged in a combat by agreement unless he withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to such other person his intent to do so and the other, notwithstanding, continues or threatens to continue the use of unlawful force.

    (c) Any rule, regulation, or policy of any agency of the state or any ordinance, resolution, rule, regulation, or policy of any county, municipality, or other political subdivision of the state which is in conflict with this Code section shall be null, void, and of no force and effect.

    (d) In a prosecution for murder or manslaughter, if a defendant raises as a defense a justification provided by subsection (a) of this Code section, the defendant, in order to establish the defendant's reasonable belief that the use of force or deadly force was immediately necessary, may be permitted to offer:

    (1) Relevant evidence that the defendant had been the victim of acts of family violence or child abuse committed by the deceased, as such acts are described in Code Sections 19-13-1 and 19-15-1, respectively; and

    (2) Relevant expert testimony regarding the condition of the mind of the defendant at the time of the offense, including those relevant facts and circumstances relating to the family violence or child abuse that are the bases of the expert's opinion.
    "Sir, could you please not bleed so much? I have to clean the store after they haul you off and I'd like the rest of my shift, to be, like, you know, better."

  9. #144
    Member Array Lyndo's Avatar
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    It is very important to learn empty hand skills. You have a responsibility if carrying a lethal option to have a non-lethal option. You might could argue "depraved indifference" if you displayed your weapon and he continued, but that would be a argument I would not really want to try to give in court. There are so many variables in play in that situation.
    Glock 36, 30SF, 31, 32, 21 Gen4 - Carry guns
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    Always carry a knife-they are handy to have
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  10. #145
    Member Array GhostRed7's Avatar
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    Never said I didn't know H2H...but even then my training teaches go for vital joints, pressure points, throat, etc.....not 100% sure that one is any less lethal than the other. I have no problem taking my kubotan keychain and shoving into someone's throat, temple, whatever if attacked. Like stated earlier in the thread, bare hands can and are lethal weapons if and of themselves with the right training.
    "Sir, could you please not bleed so much? I have to clean the store after they haul you off and I'd like the rest of my shift, to be, like, you know, better."

  11. #146
    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    The advice of "learn to fight with empty hands" is pretty glib, and even insultingly useless.

    Some people have little time due to work, some have children, some are in poor health, or middle aged +, or some are women.
    The time and expense involved is simply prohibitive for a lot of people.
    IMO hand to hand skills are even more perishable than gunfighting skills.

    Are some suggesting that a 5'2" woman with a toddler in tow should become an uber-ninja in her "free time"?

    Or are some suggesting that she "take a beating"?

    My sister is a red belt in TKD, and I would STILL encourage her to use a gun in preference to going hand to hand with an adversary threatening her and her boy.

    People weighing in on these scenarios seem to usually presume that the GG getting confronted is male, from 21-35, in peak health, perfect condition, no injuries, no wife or child nearby to protect or manage.

    That must be so awesome for you.

    Enjoy it while it lasts.

    You WILL get older, you WILL get stiffer and slower, and various injuries WILL take their toll.

    Wait ten years, then talk to me about how you can manfully "take a beating", or go "hands on".

    feh

  12. #147
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazz View Post
    I would wrather take a butt kicking then have to shoot sum 1 .If the bg is not armed I would not draw my weapon just IMO
    The "butt kicking" that you are willing to take could mean the end of me. At some point, if you are lucky, you'll be at an age where withstanding a physical assault from a dangerous assailant just isn't an option.

  13. #148
    Member Array JBinMont's Avatar
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    You don't bring fist to a gun fight
    "Trouble Never Makes An Appointment"

  14. #149
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    I don't think that comments should be taken as all or none, everybody or nobody, always or never. Obviously individual circumstances will effect nearly everything in life, but I don't put that in every post in the interest of brevity. IIRC the op was specifically addressed to no disparity situations. Even that could have variances, but given a general view provides a begining ground.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  15. #150
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    You understand that taking a human life is the most serious thing a person can do in this world, right?

    Do you really think society is going to just give people a pass every time a bully gets in their way and they just shoot them down?

    Let me know how that works out for ya.

    Should I Shoot Someone If They Are Unarmed?
    Thank you....

    To the OP sometimes you might have to fight. To pull your gun and shoot someone isnt going to be looked upon very well.. To those of you that said you would shoot, Learn AOJ...
    chazz likes this.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......

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