Damsel In Distress!...or IS she?
This is a discussion on Damsel In Distress!...or IS she? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I would have been drawing as soon as SHE opened my door. At that point i guess the thug would be about to open my ...
February 10th, 2011 11:18 AM
I would have been drawing as soon as SHE opened my door. At that point i guess the thug would be about to open my door so i would turn my attn to him, eliminate the threat, turn to her and let her know whats going to happen next.
February 10th, 2011 11:21 AM
I drive a wrangler with a soft top so I do not lock my doors it's pointless. My windows unzip on the outside and usually if the doors are locked and someone wants in they will either unzip the window or simply cut the plastic. However reading this post makes me think about locking my doors for a different reason. Someone in a hurry to get in like this gal was wouldn't think or have time to unzip the window and crawl in. Maybe I will start locking at least the passenger door. Heck in the summer I don't even have doors on the jeep I take them off and leave them in the shed all summer, I just learned not to leave anything of value in there. Nothing like driving 70mph with no top and doors
Vermont does not issue Permit/Licenses to Carry a Concealed firearm. Vermont allows anyone
who can legally own a firearm to carry it concealed without a permit of any kind.
February 10th, 2011 07:15 PM
I would never draw my gun while someone was already holding me up at point blank range with a gun. It's just cutting it too close and it's a lose-lose situation. If you draw and are fast and fortunate enough to stop the threat, you now have to deal with the legal and media nightmare that's going to cost you a lot more money then the change that was in your wallet. If you draw and stand off your attacker, you greatly increase the risk of being shot yourself, which is not worth any amount of money. The only possible way you don't lose this situation is if the thug runs away after you draw...but that's his decision, not yours. I'm not going to give HIM that kind of power over my life.
I don't carry cash in my wallet and hence I have nothing to lose. The fact that he didn't walk up and shoot me, but instead walked up and asked for money, means he'd rather not shoot me. Good, then he will probably leave me alone once he sees that I have none...or that I only have $5-15 dollars, which while demoralizing to have stolen, is no big loss.
If my attacker is only armed with a knife, or if he is armed with a gun but turns away from me so that I can catch him by surprise, then it becomes a different story.
"In a world of compromise, some don't." -HK
February 10th, 2011 07:28 PM
A distraction, either created by you or coincidental, is virtually mandatory against the drop.
Against an armed felon in the commision of a felony and under threat of lethal force, I'm not too concerned with the aftermath. Now, liviing in certain areas might elevate that concern.
It is not my inclination to leave my well being up to the benevolence of an armed criminal.
"I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".
February 10th, 2011 07:43 PM
This is probably one huge factor in making him a target.
Originally Posted by roalho
I know we all like to have nice things. People notice, and it makes one feel good. But the BGs notice, too. And they're likely to act on it.
Keep the SA up.
February 10th, 2011 07:44 PM
Extreamly dangerous assumptions here.
Originally Posted by sentioch
To all you current and former military ... thank you for your service! Let no one forget that the sacrifices you have made allow us the freedoms we enjoy.
February 10th, 2011 08:04 PM
I am looking around before I get to my truck.If by myself,I only unlock driver door.Girl beats on window and wants in?I call 911 as I am speeding away.I am no sheepdog or super hero.This world is full of people who are very good at setting up the gullible for robbery or worse.Your friend is cocky and thinks he looks like an organized crime figure?Wish him luck,he may need it.
Pain is the best teacher,but nobody wants to go to his class.
When the past smothers the present, there is only desperation. When the future absorbs the present, life stands still. In either case a decision must be made because you only live now and you are only what you are now.
February 10th, 2011 08:19 PM
Agreed. I'd never stake my life on the goodwill of a criminal.
Originally Posted by tmizzi
February 10th, 2011 10:52 PM
Exactly what I do as well. Most remote openers only open the drivers side door with the first push, then the rest of the doors if pushed twice. I would never let a stranger in my car so this would not be a problem. I am no Sir Lancelot and not looking to be anytime soon. Damsel's can save themselves, my gun is for me and my loved ones.
Originally Posted by Guantes
Fear the man with one gun. Especially if that gun is a Glock 19.
February 10th, 2011 10:54 PM
Originally Posted by WHEC724
After reading your post I looked it up. Very good read.
Fear the man with one gun. Especially if that gun is a Glock 19.
February 11th, 2011 12:55 AM
Another way to respond (if the car is started and in gear) would be to floor the accelerator! Now that would have surprised her!
"It's time to nut up or shut up" - Woody Harrelson, "Tallahassee" in "Zombieland"
February 11th, 2011 01:32 AM
A woman's husband went up to a truck... and found a man on top of her , having sex. She began yelling RAPE RAPE .... so her husband shot and killed the guy. She was having an affair with the guy, it was not a rape. The DA and Police debated what to do. The finding eventually was , that he could not be charged because he truly thought it was a rape, and therefore justified. However, she was charged and is now in prison.
No one "quickly" approaches my car .... without me knowing it. I keep pretty good situational awareness when arriving, parking, getting out or in my car. When the door is opened to get in... my gun hand is always free.... and I lock the door as I close it ... so the instant it is closed.... that door is locked. All other doors are never unlocked.
Rule # 2 ... if someone yells at you... always do a scan .... scanning can never be under-estimated.
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."
February 11th, 2011 01:44 AM
Yeah me too. I can't think of ANY legitimate reason for a total stranger to GET INTO my car without asking first. Kinda like I can't think of ANY legitimate reason for someone to be inside my house uninvited.
Originally Posted by Trav
And I'm with Adkjoe, I never lock my doors either. In fact, I leave the key in the ignition too. You can usually get away with that if you drive a 20-year old beater with 300k miles on it. I think in the OP's story the guys' shiny expensive new car probably made him even more of a target. What is it they say at the feed store? The stinkiest rancher is actually the richest.....looks can be deceiving, but it probably never hurts to look plain. Beat up old trucks don't get a second glance here in redneckville, but something shiny and expensive looking will certainly get attention. Which is really backwards if you ask me. Mr shiny new car just has a big car payment and higher insurance, he probably doesn't have any money left after all that! lol But if he was walking out of the big pharmacy, maybe they thought he had drugs too? Perhaps hitting up the WalMart pharmacy isn't a bad idea, after all, for all the bad guy knows you just bought 5 quarts of oil and some drinks for the weekend, who knows if you bought drugs or not?
I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them. -- John Wayne as John B. Books in "The Shootist"
February 11th, 2011 09:55 AM
Your full post was a bit contradictory, but I am using this portion as an example because I hear it so much. It is not directed at you or an attack on your position. Take it as you will.
Originally Posted by sentioch
This is the apathetic attitude with so many people both pro and anti that seem to literally condone this type of criminal behavior. "The </> $XXX.XX I have in my wallet/purse is not worth killing someone over or the legal hassles or financial problems that will come from me shooting them." - or - "Not worth killing someone over stealing my car/other item that can be replaced." Both usually end with "I carry to protect the life of me and mine". Well, guess what, the BG usually threatens to end your life if you don't comply with their demands for what they want to take.
BGs out and about looking to just plain kill someone are rare. China's Giant Panda rare (1600 left on the planet). So the odds of you running into them are, well, getting hit by lightning while buying a winning lotto ticket. And if you do happen to run into one of them, there is not a darn thing you will be able to do about it because by the time you figure it out, it is game over.
If ones attitude is to carry to only defend the life of themselves or their family, followed with compliance with the demands of the BG (who is threatening the life of you or your family) is better for everyone concerned, then why carry at all?
People get hung up on "If I have to use my weapon, it will kill the BG." Yes, that is a possibility. The idea here is to stop the threat to you and yours, not kill the aggressor. I am not saying shoot to wound, warning shot, stand off, brandish, etc. You do what you need to do to stop the threat hear and now.
If people stop complying with BGs, and respond with immediate, violent counter offers to their demands, one way or the other they [BGs] will not be out and about in the next few hours/days getting someone else. By applying this apathetic attitude of compliance, you are making somebody else a victim, lots of somebody elses.
You are not the one placing the value of life (BGs) based on what is in your wallet or what you posses. The BG is. A BG willing to use a deadly weapon and threats of GBI or death, in a place other than CA, DC, IL, WI....where the potential for their paycheck of the moment may be armed, is the one who placed the value of their life on it. They are banking on you will decide that what you have is not worth your life, because their intent is to get it either way. The sooner the BGs decide that their life is not worth the chump change they may get from these types actions, the safer we will all be.
I carry for me and mine. A BG threatens me or mine for what I have, it is nolonger about what I have or own, it is my life or that of my family that is at stake here. I will not be a victim under any circumstance, and I will not participate in potentially making someone else a victim or possibly causing the death of another innocent down the road because "It's not worth my time and money to stop the BG".
How would you feel if you got robbed in a parking lot, had the means and opportunity to stop the threat but opted to comply because "It's only $40.00 and I can cancel the credit cards when I get home.", then 2 days later you see a mugshot or composite drawing of the same BG that got you on the evening news, is being sought for murdering someone else or a family pack earlier that day (of the news broadcast) in another robbery?
Gonna get off this soap box now.
Back to the OP...In this particular situation, the guy was attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis...screwed... the moment the female got in the car with him. A skilled and trained individual may have been able to overcome the odds and stop the threat at that point, most of us [ccw people] would not. The time spent deciding if the female was a threat or telling the truth gave the partner the upper hand by flanking.
Can't say what exactly I would do as I was not there and have not been in this type of situation. I would be actively looking for an advantage.
Agreed, the guy needs to focus more on his surroundings than thinking appearance is a sufficient deterrent.
Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
See also Sheep
February 11th, 2011 10:26 AM
Assuming my SA was really bad and I didn't notice her, and assuming I was an idiot and left my Jeep doors unlocked (which I'm anal about), she would have scared the crap out of me and I'd have been hand on gun as soon as I realized it was opening. This may not have ended well as BG #2 may have noticed this and just began shooting.
However, in all reality I am extremely anal about my doors being locked and remind people to lock them whenever they exit my vehicle. There's no way that handle is going to be unlocked unless someone opens up my soft top, unlocks it, then closes the soft top back. Now unless you know how to do that, it's not the easiest thing to do so chances are I'd notice something amiss when they couldn't get it back properly. I also don't have automatic locks. Come to think of it, I don't have automatic *anything*.
My point being: unless I experienced a supreme failure in my habits and precautions, this situation wouldn't have played out as described anyway.
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