Doorbell at 11 PM

This is a discussion on Doorbell at 11 PM within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was watching a video last night titled "The Art of the Dynamic Handgun." I had my Walther PPK/S unloaded and was practicing with the ...

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Thread: Doorbell at 11 PM

  1. #1
    Member Array Shutterbug's Avatar
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    Doorbell at 11 PM

    I was watching a video last night titled "The Art of the Dynamic Handgun." I had my Walther PPK/S unloaded and was practicing with the author's grip recommendation which differs from what I have used for years. The doorbell then rang, and we were not expecting anyone, yet wanted to answer it, because it might be a next door neighbor in distress, but here is my gun unloaded with an empty clip. I had 2 mags, but one was causing cycling failures and had to be discarded, and new one should arrive by Tuesday.

    A few months ago I took the advice of a self defense consultant who runs a local gun shop. He recommended keeping a gun permanently stashed near the door, to be ready for a sudden barging in during a situation such as this. This is the reason I kept the KelTec P11 instead of trading it a few weeks ago. We have no kids, nor does anyone who would visit, and this gun is concealed higher than toddler reach just to be safe. I took the Keltec and peered out the windows on each side of the door frame and determined there was no one standing at our door. My wife had arrived downstairs with the gun I got her for Christmas for concealed carry, a Charter .38 (in fashionable red and black, I might add). All our handguns are loaded with Hornady XTP SD rounds.

    Our 2008 red Grand Prix seems to be a magnet for destruction, including getting keyed, and I wanted to check on it, so I cautiously poked my head out the door, looking from one of the hoes to the other, and not seeing any movement, or anything suspicious. D-cell maglite in one hand and pistol in other hand I said very loudly, "I have a gun; get outta' here." I waited a few seconds, then went to the middle of the yard, where no cover was close to me, and started to move around, to discover anyone who could be concealed on either side of the house, behind bushes, and finally over to the driveway to clear around both cars, no damage being discerned. We live in a subdivision on a 100 ft wide lot, that goes 300 ft deep. There are houses on both sides of us as well as across the street, most with porch or driveway lights on.

    As I walked back to the front door my wife, who had taken a position inside the family room facing the rear door to the deck, called out to me that she was about to call 911 and I concurred it was a good idea. The county sheriff's
    department had 2 cruisers come by within 10 minutes, and I talked to one of them. I already knew that residents in our area were being called by this sheriff's department and being told to keep cars locked and valuables taken inside because of a spike in driveway thefts.

    This morning I started reading NRA magazine, "1st Freedom" and its "Armed Citizen" column starts off with our scenario, except that the residents observed a car in the driveway and 2 men pounding on the door, while a third went around back and did same. That situation ended with shots fired and perps fleeing.

    If I knew there was a suspect with nefarious intent outside I would have never left the house. At that time it was starting to appear like a prank.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    If I knew there was a suspect with nefarious intent outside I would have never left the house. At that time it was starting to appear like a prank.
    How did you know that before you exposed yourself by leaving the security of your house and walked out to a position where you had neither cover nor concealment.You might want to invest in surveillance cameras that cover your driveway and other areas of your yard not to mention motion activated lights that will deny an intruder a dark environment to work in
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    Member Array LoadedPipes's Avatar
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    Definitely invest in motion sensor lights, but stay inside next time and call the police if necessary. A lot of these scenarios go down in a bad way when the BG's knock and hide waiting for you to exit and than rush inside and ambush your family while you're locked outside. The permanently stashed gun is a good idea though I keep a .357 loaded next to the couch where I sit during the night within arms reach, no kids here either and when I answer the door if I'm not already carrying I can tuck it in my waistband.

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    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Good advice so far from both posters. I only have one question. What did you mean by the following statement ?

    "looking from one of the hoes to the other"

    This could be why you get people at your door late at night.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

    http://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/

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    Member Array Shutterbug's Avatar
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    That was supposed to be "house." If I ever did have to shoot, I assure you my marksmanship is more accurate than my typing.

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    This is why I like my security camera. I can go back and see who came to the door, if they left and where they went w/o leaving the couch.
    "I got a lot of problems with you people!" - Frank Costanza

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    Member Array sigsegv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutterbug View Post
    D-cell maglite in one hand and pistol in other hand I said very loudly, "I have a gun; get outta' here."
    This seems like a bad way to announce yourself when you're not aware of an imminent threat. I have no experience in the matter, but what good could come from it?

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    Member Array Shutterbug's Avatar
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    Part II of the scenario was revealed this morning. The doorbell ringing was obviously a prank by some neighborhood kids. They left plastic tableware at the end of our driveway, and our 26 yr old daughter explained this as a calling card of little pranksters. I suspected that last night. The scary thing to me is that if they had chosen to hide in the bushes along the far side of our house, and I had seen them move when I shone the flashlight there, this could have been a tragic situation. I am the type who who constantly questions the situation, and would be looking for some other way to explain what is going on. The only shooting that could have been justified in the yard would have been someone rushing at me with a weapon, and since I had advanced into the yard instead of retreating further into my house, I could've bee the one hung out to dry even if BG's were involved.

    If those kids were hiding close-by when I shouted my warning, and then appeared with the gun, I imagine their knickers were wet.
    I have only been CCWing for 6 months, but have found that this evaluation of scenarios makes me discover a lot of "what if's" in between the cracks.

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    VIP Member Array PAcanis's Avatar
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    I've said before that when something goes bump in the night I would go out to investigate. However, someone ringing my bell or knocking, then disappearing... that would keep me inside. I think I would shout out something like Who's there?, just in case they didn't wait long enough. I know I would be peering out windows if no one answered, at the least to see if someone is doing the same thing at the two neighbor's I can make out, but that's a little too weird for me to go poking around outdoors. That would have my guard up.

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    Member Array carguy2244's Avatar
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    Scenario 1. Kids' prank. You shoot them. Dead kids. Your fault. You become a murderer, get 20 years in prison, and get raped a lot.

    Scenario 2. Real BGs. You go outside. You get killed.

    Scenario 3. Real bad guys. You kill them. Since you came outside looking for them refer back to scenario 1.

    Moral of the story:

    You acted irresponsibly, your current decision making process makes you a danger to yourself and others around you.

    While 2A protects your right to be armed, you'd do everyone a service if you get rid of your guns until you learn appropriate behavior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carguy2244 View Post
    Scenario 1. Kids' prank. You shoot them. Dead kids. Your fault. You become a murderer, get 20 years in prison, and get raped a lot.

    Scenario 2. Real BGs. You go outside. You get killed.

    Scenario 3. Real bad guys. You kill them. Since you came outside looking for them refer back to scenario 1.

    Moral of the story:

    You acted irresponsibly, your current decision making process makes you a danger to yourself and others around you.

    While 2A protects your right to be armed, you'd do everyone a service if you get rid of your guns until you learn appropriate behavior.
    Bit of an outlandish statement. Different states, different laws, different justified SDs.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    Member Array Vtxdpm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shutterbug View Post
    ...if they had chosen to hide in the bushes along the far side of our house, and I had seen them move when I shone the flashlight there, this could have been a tragic situation.
    Your statement above implies that you would possibly have shot if you saw movement in the bushes. Others have addressed your tactical errors but that statement puts the icing on the cake.

    In response to a ringing doorbell and no one there you announced your armed status and then walked out exposing yourself in search of the "perpetrator(s)" and might have shot at movement in the bushes.

    After learning that the likely pranksters were neighborhood kids for whom you basically brandished your weapon and made a threatening remark in the face of no deadly threat whatsoever, you make light of it by commenting, "...If those kids were hiding close-by when I shouted my warning, and then appeared with the gun, I imagine their knickers were wet."

    I echo the comment by carguy224 - "You acted irresponsibly, your current decision making process makes you a danger to yourself and others around you."

  14. #13
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carguy2244 View Post
    Scenario 1. Kids' prank. You shoot them. Dead kids. Your fault. You become a murderer, get 20 years in prison, and get raped a lot.

    Scenario 2. Real BGs. You go outside. You get killed.

    Scenario 3. Real bad guys. You kill them. Since you came outside looking for them refer back to scenario 1.

    Moral of the story:

    You acted irresponsibly, your current decision making process makes you a danger to yourself and others around you.

    While 2A protects your right to be armed, you'd do everyone a service if you get rid of your guns until you learn appropriate behavior.
    And perhaps you should get rid of your computer until you learn appropriate behavior.

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    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vtxdpm View Post
    Your statement above implies that you would possibly have shot if you saw movement in the bushes. Others have addressed your tactical errors but that statement puts the icing on the cake.

    In response to a ringing doorbell and no one there you announced your armed status and then walked out exposing yourself in search of the "perpetrator(s)" and might have shot at movement in the bushes.

    After learning that the likely pranksters were neighborhood kids for whom you basically brandished your weapon and made a threatening remark in the face of no deadly threat whatsoever, you make light of it by commenting, "...If those kids were hiding close-by when I shouted my warning, and then appeared with the gun, I imagine their knickers were wet."

    I echo the comment by carguy224 - "You acted irresponsibly, your current decision making process makes you a danger to yourself and others around you."
    +1

    I've said it a hundred times here and will say it again. If you didn't initiate the call at your door, or don't recognize the caller, you don't open your door. Period.

    Why do you tough guys want to expose yourself by walking outdoors in the night? If it's kids, they'll just run off laughing, and you don't have to shoot them. If it's a crook, same outcome.

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    Member Array jwarren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old School View Post
    Good advice so far from both posters. I only have one question. What did you mean by the following statement ?

    "looking from one of the hoes to the other"

    This could be why you get people at your door late at night.
    That was my thought too....

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