Shoot? Don't Shoot?

Shoot? Don't Shoot?

This is a discussion on Shoot? Don't Shoot? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You witness the below taking place, what would you do?

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Thread: Shoot? Don't Shoot?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array sgb's Avatar
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    Shoot? Don't Shoot?

    You witness the below taking place, what would you do?
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array sdprof's Avatar
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    Shoot the one guy just for the butt crack exposure

    Draw and command them to stop?

    Really, there's too little info and too narrow a view in just this video.
    The only common sense gun legislation was written about 226 years ago.

    I carry always not because I go places trouble is likely, but because trouble has a habit of not staying in its assigned zone.

  3. #3
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    I'd ask the cop if he's like some assistance...if yes, then this old man would 'assist'
    Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”

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  5. #4
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    I'm guessing the two that stepped in at the end were to assist the officer?

    I can't see if they were going for his gun, but be certain that I'd do something. Maybe it's just kicking some ass until the officer can regain control.
    "I got a lot of problems with you people!" - Frank Costanza

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Was that a staged video? The sergeant got up pretty quickly after the kicking stopped. His situational awareness was really off when he ignored the male to his left and focused on the first male. Why did he pull his weapon in the first place ? Seems setup to me because of the officers reaction or non reaction to his assailants while he is on the ground out of the cameras sight and after he stands up. More information is definately needed here.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

  7. #6
    Member Array Blue Jacket's Avatar
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    This is not staged. It's real. It occurred outside Cincinnati. I think the town is Mt. Union, OH. The lone officer was going to give the one guy a breath test for drunk driving after a traffic stop. He became belligerent and was refusing, when his stepbrother jumped the officer from behind and threw him to the ground, kicking him in the head several times. The bystanders must have come to the officers aid. No mention of anyone going for the officers gun. I saw the video of the officer interviewed afterwards, but I never heard him say how many were arrested.
    May we never forget those in uniform who protect us night and day in lands far away. And those in all wars who paid the supreme sacrifice in defense of our country. May God Bless our Troops and First Responders.

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I can't get physical due to a disability,but IMHO I am now in fear for the Officers life,and I will come to his aid,Drawing and shouting verbal commands to stop the attack and prone out,including his buddy,If it appears he is trying to disarm the officer it will be his last move.In Tx we can come to the aid of a 3rd party,and this close to the border there are hundreds of Illegal dirt bags that commit crimes and run back to Mexico
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  9. #8
    Member Array n3ss's Avatar
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    I'd of shot that from a different angle with my camera phone, thats for sure.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Old School's Avatar
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    Blue Jacket thanks for the updated info.

    That is one lucky LEO. He put himself into that posistion and could do nothing to get himself out of it. On the ground getting kicked in the head and does nothing to defend himself and even after the one who takes him to the ground gets off him the first subject keeps on kicking him until he decides to stop. The man and women that come on the scene do not seem to do anything except come over to where the incident is occuring but at least they do something. If I had seen the altercation some pepper spray would have gone to both suspects and whatever else was needed to get the LEO back in control.
    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer".

    "A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves".

  11. #10
    Member Array BigE410's Avatar
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    Wouldn't have drawn unless one of the two morons grabbed the officers gun. But I for sure woulda stepped in to help. No cop I know is gonna look badly at my steppin in to help. Its basically a free pass to kick some serious ass till the situation is back in the officers control.

    Im surprised the officer didn't act diffrently after gettin back up. Maybe he was in shock but I woulda thought things would get nasty after something like that took place. Time to taze/mace whatever. And neither one are plesant.....lesson learned, never mess with the cops.
    I dont believe in fate, I believe in odds.

  12. #11
    Distinguished Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
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    I won't ask if a cop needs assistance. It's on like Donkey Kong if I saw this scenario. But this is not a shoot scenario unless the cop's gun is taken from him.

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    Cop was nearly turned into a vegetable by a 14 year old kid round these parts last year. It didn't take several kicks to the head, the LEO hit his head on the sidewalk. Cop on the ground is at risk of serious bodily injury... I'd be justified to shoot. Don't know whether I would or not, but guarantee I'd probably draw, his gun taken or not.

    I'm not issuing commands... If they want to run, fine.

    I'll get a tag and a description, then render aid to the cop.
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  14. #13
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    Don't shoot .. .. .. ..yet.

    I'm a little old for hands on.

    Based on what I saw:
    My left hand pepper-sprays eyes/faces of both assaulters - kicker first.
    My right hand has drawn my firearm and I'm holding it close to right side for retention.
    My head is on swivel for any more accomplices.
    I shout for bystanders to call 911, request back-up, describe events w/ officer on the ground being assaulted.

    Whether I shoot depends on assailants next moves.
    "It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end"____Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519

  15. #14
    New Member Array Gungadin's Avatar
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    1) Disparity of force: 2 attacking 1, who is down and can't help me.
    2) LEO down and in process of being severely injured (kicks)
    3) Gun available to assailants and I can't see it

    They have demonstrated the capacity and the will to inflict serious bodily injury. That's legal justification to defend a third party.
    Fire away. NOW. If I give "commands" the perp can turn and fire on me or can stomp his victim again before I can react.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Tough call.

    Head kicker guy kept kicking after take down guy told/pushed him back a couple of times. Doubtful he would have heard or acknowledged a command from a third party (gun drawn or not), he was clearly intent on playing kickball.

    There are some here who would have shot after the first or second kick after command to stop, and technically would have been justified.

    To me, take down guy appeared to have grabbed the officers gun after he put the officer down and tossed it away to the right (smart move on his part to not keep a hold of it). Had he kept the gun in his possession, again, there are some here who would have shot and would have been justified.

    I was not there, I have not witnessed anything like this or ever been involved in this type of situation, so I do not know what I would have done.

    I doubt the officer would have heard or acknowledged an offer for assistance, and any effort to keep trying to get his attention to the offer is not only a distraction to the officer at a critical time, it is also a delay in assisting. Every hit the officer takes is more damage.

    I believe the prudent thing would to do whatever is necessary to stop the threat to the officers right away, then either render aid to the officer if he is injured, or be very compliant to the officers commands if he's coherent.

    A shot fired during that, the officer is alone, being attacked (2 on 1 at the start), his gun is not in his control, who knows how he is going to respond. For all he knows the shot may have been at him, and I suspect he would have reacted to that new threat.

    If one were to fire their weapon at either of the two suspects at this time, a prudent thing would to yell out at the top of your lungs "OFFICER DOWN, CALL 911!!!"

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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