Justified Homicide in Marital Affair?

This is a discussion on Justified Homicide in Marital Affair? within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hey guys this is the artist formerly known as Martino. For some reason I cannot log in so i started a new account. I hope ...

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Thread: Justified Homicide in Marital Affair?

  1. #31
    Member Array Rugerguy's Avatar
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    Hey guys this is the artist formerly known as Martino. For some reason I cannot log in so i started a new account. I hope mods didn't ban me for a tasteless scenario, (are any tasteful?) if so i'm sorry. This is a legitimate question. Is adultery provocation? I haven't seen it addressed in any of my books. And no I'm not in an affair. Thank you.

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Well, if the "other guy" wins, does he get to keep your widow, the insurance money , the car and the house ?

    If it is your wife and you were the one who initiated the violence, I don't think you'ld have a leg to stand on.

    There was a case somewhere... that when the husband found a guy with his wife having sex in a truck, she started yelling "help... he's raping me" . The husband shot and killed the guy to save his wife. The husband was not charged, because you can shoot to protect someone from serious harm and rape usually qualifies. However, the wife was charged and if I remember correctly, went to prison for a long time.

    I think the best way to handle it ... is in divorce court.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
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  4. #33
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    Seriously? How many men take care of extramarital affair business with their gun on the pillow next to them? What are you going to do keep your shoulder holster on or just not bother removing your pants?

    In all honesty, I suppose you could get away with just about anything, but an even halfway decent prosecutor is going to eat your lunch. You probably have as much chance of getting convicted of premeditated murder as you do of getting off with a self defense excuse, bringing a pistol into the house of a married woman you are sleeping with. Sure it might be circumstantial, but I guarantee you a sharp prosecutor could make it so difficult for you that you'd feel happy to have the chance to plead down and take whatever jail time you got. Not to mention that they'd tear into your entire life and heaven help you if the victim's wife ever mentioned anything about wanting to be free of her husband to anyone.

    As far as self defense shootings go, you couldn't ask for a worse situation than something like this.

  5. #34
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    Seems like someone has too much free time on his hands.

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    Don't do it its not worth it. The minutes (seconds for some lol) of satisfaction won't make up for a life time of misery, jail time, or being dead. Its kind of like stealing, if its not yours don't take it. I'm unmarried but if I was and I was the husband in this situation I hope I would have the self control to leave and call a divorce attorney and maybe an ambulance for the naked guy on the floor with a broken nose and black eyes and the wife would not be my wife much longer.

  7. #36
    Member Array nhcruffler's Avatar
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    True story, a close friend came home and saw a truck in the drive. He enters his house and grabs a baseball bat. He opens the bedroom door to find this guy in bed with his girlfriend. He told the guy to get moving but the shmuck was scared S less and " froze". Well, he got a broken leg and my friend got a month in county. Said it was worth it :) . Best not to mess around and NEVER in another guys castle!

  8. #37
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhcruffler View Post
    True story, a close friend came home and saw a truck in the drive. He enters his house and grabs a baseball bat. He opens the bedroom door to find this guy in bed with his girlfriend. He told the guy to get moving but the shmuck was scared S less and " froze". Well, he got a broken leg and my friend got a month in county. Said it was worth it :) . Best not to mess around and NEVER in another guys castle!
    I simply am amazed at the prevalence of this mindset. If your girlfriend/wife invites another man into your bed, she's the bigger part of the problem. Not that her paramour is blameless, but your beef is with HER.

    It's not worth a month of my life to me. A simple visit to a qualified divorce attorney means I get to keep all my money! Done.

  9. #38
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    If you don't want the consequence - don't take the risk.

    "Before you try beating the odds, be sure you can survive the odds beating you!"
    "It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end"____Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Since the OP is in Minnesota I thought it might be worth looking at Minnesota law.
    609.36 ADULTERY.
    Subdivision 1.Acts constituting.When a married woman has sexual intercourse with a man other than her husband, whether married or not, both are guilty of adultery and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than one year or to payment of a fine of not more than $3,000, or both.

    Subd. 2.Limitations.No prosecution shall be commenced under this section except on complaint of the husband or the wife, except when such husband or wife is insane, nor after one year from the commission of the offense.

    Subd. 3.Defense.It is a defense to violation of this section if the marital status of the woman was not known to the defendant at the time of the act of adultery.
    A man catches you committing a crime in his home and you kill him in self defense? Yeah, that will go over really well.
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  11. #40
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TX expat View Post
    Seriously? How many men take care of extramarital affair business with their gun on the pillow next to them? What are you going to do keep your shoulder holster on or just not bother removing your pants?

    In all honesty, I suppose you could get away with just about anything, but an even halfway decent prosecutor is going to eat your lunch. You probably have as much chance of getting convicted of premeditated murder as you do of getting off with a self defense excuse, bringing a pistol into the house of a married woman you are sleeping with.
    And, what about a situation like mine ? ? ? I was dating a woman that had told me that she was single and I had no reason to doubt her, and then later discovered she had been lying. We never went to her house, but..... I was always 'armed'..... and ironically, she carried as well. And, my gun was always on the "bed stand" or on me.

    So, how's the prosecutor going to handle that ? I think you are wrong on this one. If you are threatened or you life is in danger, despite the circumstances... if you are NOT the one who initiates the aggression..... you have a right to defend yourself and be free of persecution or prosecution.

    I think people are losing sight of who the villian is.... it's the spouse, not the other person. The other person, didn't do a thing to you, the spouse did.
    Last edited by Eagleks; February 25th, 2011 at 10:00 PM.
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  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    And, what about a situation like mine ? ? ? I was dating a woman that had told me that she was single and I had no reason to doubt her, and then later discovered she had been lying. We never went to her house, but..... I was always 'armed'..... and ironically, she carried as well. And, my gun was always on the "bed stand" or on me.

    So, how's the prosecutor going to handle that ? I think you are wrong on this one. If you are threatened or you life is in danger, despite the circumstances... if you are NOT the one who initiates the aggression..... you have a right to defend yourself and be free of persecution or prosecution.

    I thnk people are losing sight of who the villian is.... it's the spouse, not the other person. The other person, didn't do a thing to you, the spouse did.
    Well I think your situation is a bit more complicated and I will agree that given your scenario, you wouldn't be asking for the trouble that might have come your way. From the OP scenario I made the assumption that everyone knew the whole story and I also assumed that they were 'caught' in her home. The basis of my assumption is you aren't likely to get 'burst in on' at a hotel or anywhere else since I would assume the husband isn't going to have keys to your hotel or house... Sure he could kick in a locked door, but I didn't get that kind of situation from the OP post.

    I don't disagree that your situation is a more complicated one but I still stand by my original post under the assumptions I made. The situation is a bad one all around but you have to realize that while the burden will be on the prosecutor, a situation like that is not going to work in your favor and most police and prosecutors are going to look for every angle and not just assume you are only guilty of self defense.

    As to your comment about the 'villain', maybe in your situation it might be more clear cut, but if you're knowingly having an affair with a married person it's a tough sell to say that you aren't somewhat culpable for any trouble that arises. I'm not saying you can't defend yourself, or you shouldn't defend yourself, but I highly doubt that you will be 'free of persecution or prosecution' since there is no way you won't get pretty heavily investigated at the very least.

    On a side note I had a buddy get into a similar situation as yours. He actually got confronted on the patio of a Mexican restaurant. The husband and a friend followed them and had planned on beating the snot out of him. Luckily they decided to confront him while she was in the bathroom and the friend approached him and asked if he was aware she was married. Obviously his shock was pretty evident so they left him alone and all three were sitting together when she came back. Thankfully that guy was level headed enough to confirm who the villain really was otherwise it could have been bad for my buddy.

  13. #42
    Distinguished Member Array C9H13NO3's Avatar
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    If I walked in on someone nailing my wife, I wouldn't ask questions or say anything until after I shot the man dead. My house or anyone elses.

    If you're in the OP's scenario, take your beating like a man, apologize, and ask forgiveness. No one should ever be in that situation in the first place.
    -Ryan

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by C9H13NO3 View Post
    If I walked in on someone nailing my wife, I wouldn't ask questions or say anything until after I shot the man dead. My house or anyone elses.

    If you're in the OP's scenario, take your beating like a man, apologize, and ask forgiveness. No one should ever be in that situation in the first place.
    Again, there are civilized ways to deal with this situation and to get both punishment and revenge; and they don't involve shooting anyone or beating anyone. It may feel good to act like a thug, but it will feel better long term if you stay out of jail and watch your adversary get impoverished by a judge.

  15. #44
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C9H13NO3 View Post
    If I walked in on someone nailing my wife, I wouldn't ask questions or say anything until after I shot the man dead. My house or anyone elses.

    If you're in the OP's scenario, take your beating like a man, apologize, and ask forgiveness. No one should ever be in that situation in the first place.
    I could at least empathize if your wife is being raped. If she is a willing participant in the liaison your beef is primarily with her. But I repeat myself.

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    It really isn't funny.... and people shouldn't make assumptions......

    I'm single and was going out with this one woman, and on about the 8th -10th date she said something that really caught me weird, and I probed about that comment until she admitted to me ..... she was married. She had been telling me the entire time she was single, and there was no reason to doubt her.

    The "other" guy, may not know ... he's "the other guy".

    I'm always amazed anyway, blame the one that's married to you...... they are the one who cheated on you, not the other person.
    I whole heartedly agree with you on this.
    If some buy busted in with a gun in his hand, and I didn't have any idea who he was, I would be totally justified in shooting him.
    Not necessarily so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    There was a case somewhere... that when the husband found a guy with his wife having sex in a truck, she started yelling "help... he's raping me" . The husband shot and killed the guy to save his wife. The husband was not charged, because you can shoot to protect someone from serious harm and rape usually qualifies. However, the wife was charged and if I remember correctly, went to prison for a long time.
    There was one exactly like that in Harris County Texas ( Houston area) a couple years ago. I think the wife got thirty years.
    I think the best way to handle it ... is in divorce court.
    Most definitely
    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    And, what about a situation like mine ? ? ? I was dating a woman that had told me that she was single and I had no reason to doubt her, and then later discovered she had been lying. We never went to her house, but..... I was always 'armed'..... and ironically, she carried as well. And, my gun was always on the "bed stand" or on me.

    So, how's the prosecutor going to handle that ? I think you are wrong on this one. If you are threatened or you life is in danger, despite the circumstances... if you are NOT the one who initiates the aggression..... you have a right to defend yourself and be free of persecution or prosecution.

    I thnk people are losing sight of who the villian is.... it's the spouse, not the other person. The other person, didn't do a thing to you, the spouse did.
    This I think would fall under the legal category of "Sucks to be you!"
    If you were in a motel you might have a leg to stand on. If you were in her home like the circumstances the OP described you are out of luck.
    Adultery is a class "C" misdemeanor in Kansas
    21-3507. Adultery. (1) Adultery is engaging in sexual intercourse or sodomy with a person who is not married to the offender if:

    (a) The offender is married; or

    (b) The offender is not married and knows that the other person involved in the act is married.

    (2) Adultery is a class C misdemeanor.
    So if you were to continue carrying on with her after learning she was married you would be guilty of adultery.
    As far as a self defense justification for use of force, again, if you were in a motel you might have a chance. If she still lived with her hubby and you were in their home, you are out of luck.
    21-3212a. Use of force; presumptions. (a) For the purposes of K.S.A. 21-3211 and 21-3212, and amendments thereto, a person is presumed to have a reasonable belief that deadly force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to such person or another person if:

    (1) The person against whom the force is used, at the time the force is used:

    (A) Is unlawfully or forcefully entering, or has unlawfully or forcefully entered, and is present within, the dwelling, place of work or occupied vehicle of the person using force; or

    (B) has removed or is attempting to remove another person against such other person's will from the dwelling, place of work or occupied vehicle of the person using force; and

    (2) the person using force knows or has reason to believe that any of the conditions set forth in paragraph (1) is occurring or has occurred.

    (b) The presumption set forth in subsection (a) does not apply if, at the time the force is used:

    (1) The person against whom the force is used has a right to be in, or is a lawful resident of, the dwelling, place of work or occupied vehicle of the person using force, and is not subject to any order listed in K.S.A. 21-3843, and amendments thereto, that would prohibit such person's presence in the property;

    (2) the person sought to be removed is a child, grandchild or is otherwise in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of the person against whom the force is used;

    (3) the person using force is engaged in the commission of a crime, attempting to escape from a location where a crime has been committed, or is using the dwelling, place of work or occupied vehicle to further the commission of a crime; or

    (4) the person against whom the force is used is a law enforcement officer who has entered or is attempting to enter a dwelling, place of work or occupied vehicle in the lawful performance of such officer's lawful duties, and the person using force knows or reasonably should know that the person who has entered or is attempting to enter is a law enforcement officer.
    emphasis added.

    If you notice, for you to be guilty of adultery it requires your knowledge. If you know she is married you are commiting a crime and under (b) (3) you no longer have that presumption of a reasonable belief. But that nasty part about the presumption not applying (b) (1) says nothing about your knowledge or belief. If he has a right to be there (whether you know it or not) when it comes to trial there will not be that presumption of a reasonable belief. It will be up to you and your lawyer to prove that your belief was reasonable.

    And, you would be committing a crime in his home. So his coming after you with a weapon might be seen as a castle doctrine scenario where the presumption of justification is on his side.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

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