You're not my daddy...

This is a discussion on You're not my daddy... within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by MadMac This thread has nothing to do with a ccw scenario. Why is it here? Kill it. I agreed with this, what ...

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Thread: You're not my daddy...

  1. #16
    Member Array rks2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    This thread has nothing to do with a ccw scenario. Why is it here?

    Kill it.
    I agreed with this, what does this related to Carry & Defensive Scenarios?

    Parents telling words to child/ren is nothing you can do but if see hitting at child/ren then yes.... get the lic plate #.
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  3. #17
    Member Array Sledzep01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rks2 View Post
    I agreed with this, what does this related to Carry & Defensive Scenarios?

    Parents telling words to child/ren is nothing you can do but if see hitting at child/ren then yes.... get the lic plate #.
    As the Father of 3 (1 grown) I would not react except for the "not my Daddy" I would then call 1911 and any decent Dad would be glad someone did because the next time it could be their child and truly an abduction.

    As for this not belonging here? I have read much crazier scenarios on this forum. If the OP would have asked at the end of his post if we would have shot the man with our concealed weapon would a crazy thought like that really make this worth being on the forum?

    Sled

  4. #18
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    Ease up on the guy fellas. He is a young man and he is learning. I hate to admit it but I posted some pretty corny stuff when I first got here.
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rks2 View Post
    I agreed with this, what does this related to Carry & Defensive Scenarios?

    Parents telling words to child/ren is nothing you can do but if see hitting at child/ren then yes.... get the lic plate #.
    If you carry a piece it does have to do with CCW, if you intervene that fact might weight on the balance depending on the direction this situation take.

    When one carries and depending on the locality laws, one would have to asses the severity and type of aggression thrown in one's direction or against a defenseless creature.

    My lawyer once told me in such scenario don't intervene at all unless I was willing to take on that persons rights and responsibilities, a difficult decision indeed.
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  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    Here is the chain of thought, I was watching the show what would you do when I posted this and they had a segment on a guy who was out with his daughter. The waiter raised questions about the legitamacy of the man being the parent because they would have a white father and black daughter or vice versa. They also switched it to white daughter, black father and had the same reactions from people. Most people stepped on on the fathers side. That got me thinking, what would it change of the child was acting out, had signs of physical injury and started yelling as he was being dragged out of starbucks by a man who he claimed was not his father. While this scenario may seem to be unrealistic and implausible, keep in mind the people who kidnapped Elizabeth Smart took her out in public with them, interacted normally with others while she was around, and beat her and raped her when in private. So it is possible for a psychopath to stop in for a cup of coffee and look like a completely normal event happening in front of you. The only way to tell otherwise would be if you had called 911 and they matched the plates. This is why I posed this scenario, to see how many would react by calling 911 with a plate or just sitting by. Those of you who called 911, could have just saved a life, or caused a father to have less time to get through his and his childs schedule. those who did not could have just witnessed a childs last moments, or a non event at all, but without calling, who knows. So, Madmac, Enfd, and Dripster, this is the reasoning behind my scenario, it is loosely based off the What would you do, and Elizabeth Smart expiriement and abduction respectively . Any other scenarios I have posted I can back up with reasoning for posting. Its not just sitting around thinking of stuff to toss out there, it is based on things I see on the news, observe in real life, or see on a TV show that could plausibly happen in reality. Maybe its a woman yanking her child down the aisle at a grocery store. A man screaming in a womans face about how she hurt him. Little things like this are what in real life can and sometimes do escalate into a deadly force situation. Lets take a look at the key phrase in this story. "Now you notice the mans mannerisms are not that of caring parent." This right here is where the line is, the man has crossed a line into acting like an enraged lunatic and not a loving caring father. Everyone has a situation in their minds of what a caring parent looks like when they are angry with a child. This man has gone above and beyond whatever this is in your mind. The phrase before this also demonstrates an issue that is not quite right. "He becomes slightly more agitated and begins shaking his finger in the face of the child and you can hear his hushed threats of violence."
    Now some of you are saying, well I have threatened to smack my childs hand or spank them when we get home. Most people would not call that a 'threat of violence" That would be a punishment or physical discipline. Not a threat of violence. Different people took this to mean different things. In the terms of this scenario, it means literally, I will beat you within an inch of your life, I will kill you, I will knock you senseless. Not, "don't make me smack your hand, don't do that or your gonna get a spanking." Here is the third and final clue in the scenario. "Then you hear him say, you have no reason to cry, stop crying or ill give you a reason to cry. The child stops crying and the man finishes his drink, and tosses the cup away and the child resists going out the door screaming no, help, no, you not dad, you not daddy. The man then yanks on the childs arm and drags him/her out the door of the Starbucks." Note the man or woman yanks the childs arm, not pulls, not picks the child up, yanks the childs arm and drags them out of the store. Most normal parents will pick up a child acting out like this and carry them out. They would not yank violently on the childs arm and then drag them across pavement to a vehicle. These are all indicators of a possible abduction scenario and in this case what you saw was an abductor out of the childs area and in their comfort zone of not having the child recognized. This is all textbook abductor and abductee behavior before the onslaught of captor/captive bonding. The man or woman is escalating to a dangerous level and by the time the child is out to the vehicle, he or she may have bruses, broken bones, burns from hot pavement and being dragged across it. To those who called 911, bravo zulu, what factors caused you to do so, and to those who did not, why? Were the factors I pointed out not presenting as red flags and why?
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsclaw View Post
    In your scenerio, you said it was a Starbucks. That alone would lead me to believe it wasn't an abduction. Someone abducting a child, doesn't stop off at a Starbucks, and leisurely knock down a cup of coffee, with lots of witnesses around, but I suppose it is POSSIBLE. If you would have said a convenience store, at an odd hour at night, that would be more suspicious to me.

    This, but if this happend I would get the plate number.

    Here's a tip that was supposedly passed on by LEO to retailers in the event of a child disappearing in a store. They told the door checkers to ignore the description of what the child was wearing as the child can be rushed into a bathroom and have their clothes changed. In yourger children they will sometimes even change the clothing gender to make the child look different. The thing they said to check is their shoes. It seems that it's hard to judge a childs foot size and the kidnappers usually just use the same shoes rather than bring multiple shoe sizes with them.

    I don't know if any of this is true, just something someone in retail told me once.

  8. #22
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    I have to say, this is the one scenario that I dread actually coming true in my presence. The reason is, I am a father of 5. Kids are my weak spot. If I saw something like the OP described I think i might have to get involved in some way. Most likely, i would call 911 while exiting after them and not only give descriptions, plate numbers and any other info I can but i will most likely follow the vehicle while on the phone with the police.

    Now, if the situation involved seeing a child snatched off the street, I think I would go even further. I couldn't live with myself if I saw a child being snatched and did nothing about it, then read or saw on the news that the child was found raped and dead the next day.

    flame me if you wish but, I just can't stand by and witness a child being harmed.
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  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    This thread has nothing to do with a ccw scenario. Why is it here?

    Kill it.
    This forum includes defensive scenarios other than involving concealed carry. This is the correct place for it to have been posted.

    I have done some cleanup on this thread, removing several off topic posts. Please keep it on topic and just "pass on by" if you have no real interest in the scenario....
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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    WOW. Paragraphs and bullet points are your friend. This is VERY hard to read.

    Please edit, as this is an interesting discussion to me...dad of 2 kids here.

    Regarding the OP...I would probably go and talk to the guy. Explain that I have kids too, and that they sometimes say and do crazy stuff, but still...can't be too careful. If he is really the dad, you should be able to tell from his reaction. If my gut tells me something isn't right, I'll take his picture with my phone and tell him to have a seat while I call 911 to let the police sort it all out.


    Quote Originally Posted by INccwchris View Post
    Here is the chain of thought, I was watching the show what would you do when I posted this and they had a segment on a guy who was out with his daughter. The waiter raised questions about the legitamacy of the man being the parent because they would have a white father and black daughter or vice versa. They also switched it to white daughter, black father and had the same reactions from people. Most people stepped on on the fathers side. That got me thinking, what would it change of the child was acting out, had signs of physical injury and started yelling as he was being dragged out of starbucks by a man who he claimed was not his father. While this scenario may seem to be unrealistic and implausible, keep in mind the people who kidnapped Elizabeth Smart took her out in public with them, interacted normally with others while she was around, and beat her and raped her when in private. So it is possible for a psychopath to stop in for a cup of coffee and look like a completely normal event happening in front of you. The only way to tell otherwise would be if you had called 911 and they matched the plates. This is why I posed this scenario, to see how many would react by calling 911 with a plate or just sitting by. Those of you who called 911, could have just saved a life, or caused a father to have less time to get through his and his childs schedule. those who did not could have just witnessed a childs last moments, or a non event at all, but without calling, who knows. So, Madmac, Enfd, and Dripster, this is the reasoning behind my scenario, it is loosely based off the What would you do, and Elizabeth Smart expiriement and abduction respectively . Any other scenarios I have posted I can back up with reasoning for posting. Its not just sitting around thinking of stuff to toss out there, it is based on things I see on the news, observe in real life, or see on a TV show that could plausibly happen in reality. Maybe its a woman yanking her child down the aisle at a grocery store. A man screaming in a womans face about how she hurt him. Little things like this are what in real life can and sometimes do escalate into a deadly force situation. Lets take a look at the key phrase in this story. "Now you notice the mans mannerisms are not that of caring parent." This right here is where the line is, the man has crossed a line into acting like an enraged lunatic and not a loving caring father. Everyone has a situation in their minds of what a caring parent looks like when they are angry with a child. This man has gone above and beyond whatever this is in your mind. The phrase before this also demonstrates an issue that is not quite right. "He becomes slightly more agitated and begins shaking his finger in the face of the child and you can hear his hushed threats of violence."
    Now some of you are saying, well I have threatened to smack my childs hand or spank them when we get home. Most people would not call that a 'threat of violence" That would be a punishment or physical discipline. Not a threat of violence. Different people took this to mean different things. In the terms of this scenario, it means literally, I will beat you within an inch of your life, I will kill you, I will knock you senseless. Not, "don't make me smack your hand, don't do that or your gonna get a spanking." Here is the third and final clue in the scenario. "Then you hear him say, you have no reason to cry, stop crying or ill give you a reason to cry. The child stops crying and the man finishes his drink, and tosses the cup away and the child resists going out the door screaming no, help, no, you not dad, you not daddy. The man then yanks on the childs arm and drags him/her out the door of the Starbucks." Note the man or woman yanks the childs arm, not pulls, not picks the child up, yanks the childs arm and drags them out of the store. Most normal parents will pick up a child acting out like this and carry them out. They would not yank violently on the childs arm and then drag them across pavement to a vehicle. These are all indicators of a possible abduction scenario and in this case what you saw was an abductor out of the childs area and in their comfort zone of not having the child recognized. This is all textbook abductor and abductee behavior before the onslaught of captor/captive bonding. The man or woman is escalating to a dangerous level and by the time the child is out to the vehicle, he or she may have bruses, broken bones, burns from hot pavement and being dragged across it. To those who called 911, bravo zulu, what factors caused you to do so, and to those who did not, why? Were the factors I pointed out not presenting as red flags and why?
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  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array INccwchris's Avatar
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    sorry about the text block 10thmtn
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    WOW. Paragraphs and bullet points are your friend. This is VERY hard to read.

    Please edit, as this is an interesting discussion to me...dad of 2 kids here.

    Regarding the OP...I would probably go and talk to the guy. Explain that I have kids too, and that they sometimes say and do crazy stuff, but still...can't be too careful. If he is really the dad, you should be able to tell from his reaction. If my gut tells me something isn't right, I'll take his picture with my phone and tell him to have a seat while I call 911 to let the police sort it all out.
    you would TELL him to have a seat?????

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Tell or ask, depending on his reaction. If necessary, I could identify myself as a LEO (yes, "just" an Auxiliary) and wait for uniformed on duty officers to arrive. I have a direct line to HQ, so hopefully the wait would be short.

    If he tells me to take a hike, I probably wouldn't try to bodily stop him, for fear of escalation with a kid right there.

    I would take his photo, get his vehicle and plate info in that case.

    However - if it seemed pretty clear that this was indeed an abduction, I would not let him leave until the police got there to sort it all out. Once he leaves, you could have an abused or dead kid very quickly. I'd rather err on the side of caution in a case that that.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  14. #28
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    I would get the license plate number and report the incident to 911
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  15. #29
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    If I knew it was an adduction or had reasonable suspicion that kid ain't leaving,If DAD gets heated I'm gonna tell him sue me if you want but I want to make sure this is not an abduction case,sometimes in Divorces the parents use kids as pawns,or kidnap them.A few years back in Florida IIRC a young wife and mother was kidnapped from her home,she managed to get a motorists attention from the rear seat,and the motorist called in the plate and car description as it looked like she was in distress,the victim was the daughter of a Cop,by the time they found the car the POS kidnapper had already molested and killed her
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  16. #30
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    Can't help but laugh what some people post, I would ask the "father "if everthing was ok and if I don't like the response I tell him im calling the police, see how he reacts. If he leaves in a hurry I might follow him a little a contact an officer, describe the situation and give him the plate number, and see how the kpd takes it, who knows maybe the child was abducted anda current amber alert is out. Just because the guy stops at a coffee shop doesn't mean he is not a suspect. Most people involved in stuff like this are loony, also not every thought scenerio has to be of you involving your gun or wondering if I shoot this guy or not etc, chris I enjoyed your thought and remember the elizabeth smart incident, I lived in utah when that happened and remember people on the news saying that they saw her but didn't get involved
    “What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pike

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