Search warrants and the castle doctrine

This is a discussion on Search warrants and the castle doctrine within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by MitchellCT Why, thank you. I'm well aware of no-knocks in the course of my practice.... Really? Because your first post on this ...

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Thread: Search warrants and the castle doctrine

  1. #31
    Member Array sentioch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Why, thank you. I'm well aware of no-knocks in the course of my practice....
    Really? Because your first post on this thread seemed to indicate that you had no idea they existed...

    It's hilarious that people who are supposedly so gung-ho on freedom and the constitution never seem to bother cracking the spine on a college level constitutional law text book and reading the blasted thing.
    You seem to be the pot calling the kettle black..ranting and raving about how important it is to look up the actual law instead of relying upon wikipedia and yet you haven't made a single correction or made any disagreements with the information listed on wikipedia so far. If something is incorrect then please by all means make note of it. Better yet correct the wikipedia article.

    It is true that wikipedia is not 100% correct but nothing is, and the fact is its quite a reliable reference...it's not being used as evidence in a court case it is just being used here to provide some background explanation to people who don't know what we're talking about.

    Here's another relevant page
    Knock-and-announce - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "In a world of compromise, some don't." -HK

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  3. #32
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    Huh. Imagine that. Bickering in a thread that turned to a No Knock thread.

    I reopened the thread. Keep it clean, and it will stay open. Stray off boundry, it will be closed and points issued. I'm staying out of the fight. But don't worry, the thread will be watched.
    Last edited by SIXTO; March 8th, 2011 at 11:41 PM.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  4. #33
    3D
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    Unfortunate impasse. . . . . easy scenario to be overly emotionally charged about.

    Apparently we who speak do not know and those who know will not speak.

    Had hoped to learn more because I am among the ignorant on this topic. Can someone speak with knowledge and experience about the process by which Law Enforcement obtains such a "No Knock" warrant?

    Surely more than just reasonable suspicion, even more than probable cause for such a drastic approach. Gotta believe/hope a lot of justification would be presented for it to be 'authorized'.

    On second thought maybe this forum, esteemed as it may be, is not the place for me to learn about this.

    Think I'll have an in-person conversation at my District 1 Sheriff-Warrant Squad office.
    "It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end"____Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sentioch View Post
    Really? Because your first post on this thread seemed to indicate that you had no idea they existed...
    It is heartbreaking that sarcasm appears lost on you.

    Quote Originally Posted by sentioch View Post
    You seem to be the pot calling the kettle black..
    Really? Because I find people jumping up and down like chimpanzees on crystal meth about an issue that, while it does exist, isn't as bad as the sensationalism makes it out to be funny as all hell?

    If thats the case, I'm a 16 quart stock pot. Stainless with a black-T coating, with a copper base and the nice rubber handles that don't heat up.

    Quote Originally Posted by sentioch View Post
    ranting and raving about how important it is to look up the actual law
    It is not important for people to look up the applicable law for your own areas for themselves so they know the ROE's they have to deal with so as not to get in trouble? Um...OK...Yeah...

    Quote Originally Posted by sentioch View Post
    instead of relying upon wikipedia and yet you haven't made a single correction or made any disagreements with the information listed on wikipedia so far.
    So I'm required to do the work for you and everyone else who is too lazy to do it themselves?

    Sorry. Homie don't play that.

    Quote Originally Posted by sentioch View Post
    If something is incorrect then please by all means make note of it.
    I prefer to raise questions about the information presented and let others look harder at answers presented for flaws than correct things outright.

    People understand it better and appreciate what they got more when that happens.

    Handing things to people will never make them appreciate it.


    Quote Originally Posted by sentioch View Post
    Better yet correct the wikipedia article.
    Thanks, but I don't slum that much, nor do I rescue those who make the choice to rely on wikipedia. If people are so mentally slack as to believe what they read from non-credible sources, it's not my problem.

    Cold? Yes.
    Arrogant? To be sure.

    But that's how I roll.

    I gave the same answer to someone who came to me after her car was vandalized badly and threataned by someone who objected to her going out with another girl. (Yes. It was 3 women...)

    I told her unless she was willing to sever ties with the lifestyle that got her in trouble - meaning no more clubbing, hanging out with people who do drugs and phyco-hose-beasts who go nuts if someone looks at her 'property'- I was uninterested in assisting her with training.

    Had she been willing to make the effort to avoid the trashy people and stop going to bars, by now she'd be well on her way to being...really frightening...But, pearls before swine.

    Think of me what you wish for that, but I had no interest in teaching someone how to chin-jab and 'blue worm' someone if they weren't interested in avoiding situations in which they would need to use it.

    As to how it relates to this situation...If people are so slack as to not bother looking for actual scholarship on the issue of your 4th amendment protections, how it relates to no-knock warrants, what the standards of issuance for those warrants are, and so forth...and they chose to rely upon unvetted info while claiming to be interested in protecting the rights they believe they have...

    Well.

    That's how I roll.

    Find the scholarship or not.
    It is not beyond your reach, nor is it so legalistic you would not understand it.

    Does finding it require effort? Yes, but no more so than going to a tactical class and shooting for a day in the 100 degrees, 98% humidity, beating your 1 rep max on the bench or saying "I'm not eating garbage today because it's bad for me even though I'd stab my mother for a cranberry-orange muffin and a latte right now cause of this carb craving..."


    Quote Originally Posted by sentioch View Post
    It is true that wikipedia is not 100% correct but nothing is, and the fact is its quite a reliable reference...it's not being used as evidence in a court case it is just being used here to provide some background explanation to people who don't know what we're talking about.
    Nice excuse.

  6. #35
    Senior Member Array Lotus222's Avatar
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    ...I am ....so confused with what is going on now.

    ...not sure if trollin...

  7. #36
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    There have been cases, where they entered the wrong home.... and the owner with his gun in his hand got shot and killed.... this has occurred more than once.
    There have also been cases of gun owners/CCW holders committing felonies, including murder, as well as mistakenly shooting people in "accidents," as well as allowing their guns to be taken by minors/others who should not have access to firearms that were then used in crimes or suicides... This has occured more than once (much, much, MUCH more than once, and orders of magnitude more than "wrong target" no-knock warrants). Obviously, we should do away with all private gun ownership based on these facts. Right? The mistakes/misdeeds of the few should ALWAYS be used as justification to restrict/disallow the actions of the many - it's the way of the Great American Interweb Ranter, right?
    JD likes this.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    What is going on is very simple.

    Wikipedia is an inaccurate, unvetted source of information and any reliance on it is inherently flawed.

    Those who rely on it are...sorry, no nice way to put it...in the opinion of anyone who does anything in which you need to cite a source for credibility or authority, intellectually slack.

    Merely because the inter-web (Invented by Al Gore...) says something, does not make it so. Sources and verification are required before something off the inter-web-net-thing should be taken as correct.

    And personally, I resent being told "So wikipedia isn't 100% accurate - so you do the work and correct it!" by someone who can do it themselves.

    No-knock warrants exist, and such warrants being used incorrectly hitting the wrong house in error do happen...and yes a no knock occurring at the wrong house in a state with self defense laws favorable to residents can be a grave problem...

    However, the issue is not as grave as people make it out to be.

    Clear?

  9. #38
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    I like pie.
    MitchellCT likes this.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Um...

    Where are you getting this stuff?
    Maybe you should ask the mayor of the Baltimore suburb who had his door kicked in, his dogs shot, his family terrorized, and himself cuffed by the SWAT team who screwed up. My, you have short memories.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3D View Post
    Can someone speak with knowledge and experience about the process by which Law Enforcement obtains such a "No Knock" warrant?

    Surely more than just reasonable suspicion, even more than probable cause for such a drastic approach. Gotta believe/hope a lot of justification would be presented for it to be 'authorized'.
    In a nutshell, you have to convince the signing judge that there is a need for such a tactic for safety or evidence considerations. It is not all that easy to get one, although I will admit that I have got one every time I've asked for one. If the officers involved have a good reputation, typically the judge will allow that weight to be part of his decision.

    The problem does not lie with the type of warrant itself, it lies with poor planning and execution of such a warrant. There are to many "tactical" teams in the LEO community who cut corners out of ignorance, budget concerns or maybe even laziness. Most people do not realize all the different type of tactical teams that exist. Because they wear BDU's and carry SMG's does not make them a SWAT team. They might be SERT, SRT or just a handful of officers who were handed BDU's and SMG's for the day. That is a problem.
    My entire role for a solid year was to go in ahead of the team, pin point items that needed pin pointed and make sure they were where they needed to be. I might of been in a tree line, in a vehicle or in the living room eating McD's with the bad guys when it hit the fan. I was often on the receiving end of one of the best SWAT teams in the nation. I've seen it from both sides. And done correctly, a swift moving "no knock" is absolutely the safest way to execute a high risk warrant.

    It's human nature to fear what you don't understand. I can only lead the horse to water. But, know this. Hundreds, if not thousands of no knocks are served weekly, maybe even daily. The same tired examples of botched raids are a drop in the bucket when you look at the hard numbers and facts.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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